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Football management and tactics

By reximus8/11/2020 17:04Sun Nov 8 17:04:49 2020

Views: 16098

This is a post about my ignorance. It is not a criticism of football managers, past or present. Except Leigh Dynan, perhaps.

What difference do managers actually make? Suppose someone with zero tactical nous (like me, for example) just picked a team and said "out you go and play your best game", what would happen? What difference would it really make?

Assuming my team contained a goalkeeper and a reasonable balance of players who prefer playing in defence and up front. Assume they defend in numbers if they're winning and try a bit harder to attack if they're losing. My players don't need me to tell them that winning is worth more than losing, or that getting sent off is a bad idea.

rex

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Re: Football management and tactics

By Lesmundo9/11/2020 20:05Mon Nov 9 20:05:52 2020In response to Football management and tactics Top of thread

Views: 8460

It is definitely important.

At this level with the amount of training possible, it would suit a manager who wants to play a particular style and not deviate the approach too much for each opponent. This, a good knowledge of the league and a good budget to acquire good players (and a manager who maximises this) are all key to success.

The amount of pre game tactical impact is considerably less at this level because there is less time on the training pitch and less resources for scouting and analysis. Managers like Guardiola and Arteta can utilise these tools to not only change their tactics game to game, but even alter thier shape in each third of the pitch in and out of possession.

Where a manager can also earn their money is making in game tactical adjustments moving players around or through substitutions. In futsal, (where I work) these changes are constant and at extremely high speed. I remember a Dave Anderson team (Harrow I think) winning with 9 men at Kingsmeadow. He was very brave and sacrificed any wide pressure to defend the middle hit on the counter, so there are some very astute minds at this level.

Having a great manager can only take a team so far if they don't have great players though.

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Re: Football management and tactics

By SDG (SDG (Ks))9/11/2020 16:27Mon Nov 9 16:27:22 2020In response to Football management and tactics Top of thread

Views: 6483

I think it was Graham Taylor who said the manager gets too much credit when things go well and too much blame when they go badly? There's probably some truth in that, but that said...

Players need some sort of strategy beyond just attacking when they have the ball and defending if they don't. The higher the level, where you have more time on the training ground and more resourcing to analyse yourself and your opposition, the more detailed that's going to be. At our level, there will at the very least be an approach whether it's to keep possession, hit the channels, 'pace and power', etc. At the top of the game planning is very detailed indeed. But players need direction to have all eleven aligned in what they're trying to do, you can't have ten trying to play like Barcelona if one is trying to play like Stoke. If you had a manager who was just a fan and gave no more direction than what you just said, then the captain and other influential players would step into that void and organise things as best as they can.

Similarly on the motivational point you'd expect any player to try but a good motivator should be able to push the right buttons collectively and individually to be able to get the best out of eleven human beings who will have various personalities, confidence levels, etc and will react in different ways to praise, constructive criticism, a bollocking, an arm round the shoulder, and so on. So all in all I don't think anyone can say the manager isn't important and that's why some have done well and had tremendous success and longevity, while many flop. And it's why whenever the vacancy has come up at Ks it's been great when we've got it right and it's set the club back when we've got it wrong.

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Re: Football management and tactics

By reximus9/11/2020 19:42Mon Nov 9 19:42:43 2020In response to Re: Football management and tactics Top of thread

Views: 6432

the manager gets too much credit when things go well and too much blame when they go badly

Absolutely. Most of the time. A well-written article I've just found, suggests that perhaps 80% of managers are just average, and that only 10% of the very best and 10% of the very worst really make any difference to a team's performance, when other factors, such as wages are taken into account. The teams and managers in the article at elite level, admittedly, but I don't suppose there's much reason to believe other levels would be any different. Most results, this article suggests, are more affected by a team's luck than their manager! Studies quoted in the article reckon that "replacing one manager with another will statistically have no more impact than fans starting to go to games in a pair of lucky socks"!!

rex

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Re: Football management and tactics

By SDG (SDG (Ks))9/11/2020 20:41Mon Nov 9 20:41:43 2020In response to Re: Football management and tactics Top of thread

Views: 6446

That sort of bell curve wouldn't surprise me, with many being on a similar level and only the best and the worst standing out. But much depends what level we're talking about. At our level, what is their contact book like? What do they do for the club off the pitch? Can they pull in sponsors, can they fundraise? Do they have the charisma to bring the fanbase together? Dowse did it, Craig would have done given more than a few months in charge, Bird is trying hard though it's difficult with social distancing and not owning our own ground. Some others not so much. But this sort of thing at our level is as important as their tactical nous.

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Re: Football management and tactics

By reximus10/11/2020 11:02Tue Nov 10 11:02:32 2020In response to Re: Football management and tactics Top of thread

Views: 6433

I had meant to include a link to that article I mentioned. Here it is:

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/sacking-managers-pointless-stats-slaven-bilic-west-ham-premier-league-a8044586.html

rex

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Re: Football management and tactics

By Olde School Ks (OldSchoolKs)9/11/2020 19:48Mon Nov 9 19:48:55 2020In response to Re: Football management and tactics Top of thread

Views: 6416

Not quite sure the facts confirm that.
A new manager is quite destructive and has players at his disposal he may have to get rid of for his own preferences.It is rarely a short term fix.
You must realise as well most teams wont ever see a top ten manager but maybe a top manager at their level

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Re: Football management and tactics

By berlioz9/11/2020 07:23Mon Nov 9 07:23:01 2020In response to Football management and tactics Top of thread

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I guess Glenn Tamplin answers this question!

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Re: Football management and tactics

By Ksuals9/11/2020 09:55Mon Nov 9 09:55:15 2020In response to Re: Football management and tactics Top of thread

Views: 6497

I remember reading a collection of columns written by a sports journalist on the Manchester Guardian from the 60/70's. One was his hope Rugby League wouldn't go the route of football where the manager is omnipresent,and the players are maniquines roboticaly carring out orders.

Ksuals

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Re: Football management and tactics

By K's19608/11/2020 17:29Sun Nov 8 17:29:13 2020In response to Football management and tactics Top of thread

Views: 6569

I think we must have gone to the same school !! I would have thought this was the point in playing any sport, your in it to win it.

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Re: Football management and tactics

By Olde School Ks (OldSchoolKs)9/11/2020 07:24Mon Nov 9 07:24:05 2020In response to Re: Football management and tactics Top of thread

Views: 6520

Yes we all agree on in it to win it but you need help and guidance a good management team produces.
Boxers need management as do others in cricket,athletics,rugby and almost any sport to bring out your best in targets and mentallity.
Strange how even a horse needs a jockey.

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Re: Football management and tactics

By Ksuals9/11/2020 10:05Mon Nov 9 10:05:51 2020In response to Re: Football management and tactics Top of thread

Views: 6513

Read a collection of articles written by a Manchester Guardian sports journalist in 60/70s. His hope was that Rugby League wouldn't follow football where increasingly the manager is omnipresent and players are straight jacket,carrying out orders
England's display against Iceland were these fears personified.
I suppose my view would be that both managers and players are part of the picture,but players are the most important component of football.

Ksuals

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