The K's In Point
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A motion of no confidence in the Board
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Whilst I realise that this will have no effect whatsoever, I can no longer sit idly by whilst this club slowly dies. It seems to me that the Board of Kingstonian FC is doing nothing to prevent the demise of this once-great club, and I therefore propose a motion of no confidence in the Board.
TL/DR: if you agree with me, that the Board is overseeing the slow death of the club, please give a THUMB DOWN to show that you have no confidence in them; if you disagree with me, please give a THUMB UP to show that you still have confidence in them.
There are many reasons for my lack of confidence, including the following:
The ground
It was January 2015 when Mark Anderson stated that the club’s “best long-term interests would be served by leaving Kingsmeadow”. At the time, I disagreed with that statement, and everything in the intervening years has shown that he was wrong and I – along with almost all other supporters – were right.
Obviously much has happened since that time, but more recently we were told – on December 31st 2021 – that we would be ground sharing at Tooting & Mitcham (so outside the borough) for one year, or possibly two, whilst a new ground was developed. It was in this video that Mark famously asked supporters to “jump off a cliff”. I’m glad I’d completely lost faith in him by then, because otherwise I’d be dead.
It wasn’t until April 3rd 2022 that Mark revealed that the site in question was Lovelace playing fields, and that council officers had walked the site and he was rather excited about it all. In this video Mark said how disappointed he was to not be kept updated by the council (we know how he feels) and asked supporters to contact their local councillor to say that they support the potential move to Lovelace.
However, by the time this video was published, it’s my understanding that councillors had already completely discounted the possibility of that piece of land being developed and were discussing amongst themselves how best to inform the club of that.
It’s now July 23rd and we have had no update from the club since that time. By my calculations the “new ground” should be opening in less than two years, yet we all know that it is a complete fallacy. We have no ground, we have no plan, we have no admission of colossal and continual mistakes being made, and therefore I have no confidence that any of that will change before the club dies.
The old manager
It was February 11th when the club announced that Hayden Bird had signed a new contract taking him up until the Summer of 2024. It was sixteen short weeks later that he resigned. In the intervening weeks, as I understand it, the Board did a complete 180 on the proposed budget for the coming season, reneging on promises made to Hayden. Fortunately for the club he did the decent thing and resigned, saving them from a huge bill.
Personally, I don’t care too much about managers, having seen so many pass through that I honestly wonder how much difference they make. However, it is pretty obvious that Hayden improved both the team and the club, and the change will be detrimental to the outcomes this season.
The new manager
I have nothing whatsoever against Lee O’Leary, having never met him and knowing little about him. However, his introduction hasn’t been great.
I can’t quite believe the following, but I’m told by people I trust that it’s true. He hasn’t been at two of the four friendlies that we’ve played, and he won’t be at the next one, because he’s been on holiday. I look forward to the video after the Leatherhead match where Lee interviews Jamie to ask what’s happened in the friendlies.
In a (real) interview with Jamie a while back, he announced a “retained list” of players. I can’t remember exactly who was on it or how many (and it looks like it was never published – see below) but I understand that at least four of the “retained players” have now left.
I won’t comment on friendlies, because they quite obviously don’t matter at all. But the results and oppositions speak for themselves.
Communication
Today was the first ever Kingstonian game at a new ground. Unfortunately, most people would have known nothing about it because, apart from an auto-post on this forum the day before the match, there was absolutely no promotion of it online. If the board want to see crowds at Kingstonian matches, surely they need to ensure that the free and simple things – like Tweets, like a Facebook event – are done.
The lack of communication from the Board is quite staggering, on every level. It’s months since we heard about the ground, but there are so many other areas that are lacking. The videos from Jamie are great, but some of them are really quite long and detailed, when it would be much easier for everybody if a short snappy statement could be published instead. Is the lack of a ground update really down to the fact that Jamie hasn’t done a video? Can nobody type any more?
Marketing
I own a small business and I once had a vague discussion about sponsoring KTV. I had deep reservations about it and what it would be, and so (fortunately) decided not to proceed. Ignoring that specific, I find it incredible that I’ve never been approached by the club to do anything else.
I understand that another local business approached the club within the last few days about shirt sponsorship and were simply told that there is a new shirt sponsor so don’t worry about.
Other local clubs are pro-actively contacting local businesses asking them to get involved in any capacity whatsoever, yet here a local business got in touch themselves, and the “Marketing Director” didn’t even bother to suggest that they might like to be involved in some other way.
I understand that we have a new/different shirt sponsor. I also understand that the reason for the change is directly linked to the Marketing Director.
Summary
I know most of the Board members well enough to say hi, but I don’t know them any more than that. I don’t like saying that I have no confidence in them, but I made a bet with a mate a few years back that Ks would be dead by 2025, and Mark Anderson publicly took the piss out of me for it (which is fine). I might have got the year wrong, but looking at things as they are right now, I can’t believe I’ll be far out, and more and more of the people I know around the club share my view.
If the Board have had enough, make that clear and find out if anybody else is willing to step in. To be fair to them, they’ve done their bit over the last few years, and we should be grateful for what they’ve done. But it’s abundantly clear that they do not have the knowledge or the competence to move the search for a new ground forward and being nomads in south London will undoubtedly lead to the death of the club.
This season looks like it’s going to be horrendous, playing outside the town and borough, in front of a dwindling number of supporters, with a budget slashed from the one that saw us finish mid-table last year, and with a manager who’s missed three of our first five matches. I love Ks, and I’ll still be there whenever I can be, but I am absolutely convinced that the club is in a death spiral, so forgive me for asking the Board what they intend to do about it.
Confidence? THUMB UP
No confidence? THUMB DOWN
Gary Ekins.
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4 people 22 people
Re: A motion of no confidence in the Board
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I have to say every thing ekins has said is perfectly true what he misses is the fact regarding new sponsors coming forward is the board does not want any new people who might see them for what they are carpetbaggers ,having left Kingsmeadow 7 years early ,our playing arrangement running until 2023 they are. Quietly letting the club slip away.They were paid between 150,000 -200,000 pounds to surrender the lease to AFC early and pave the for Chelsea Ladies to take over .Now I know Gary Ekins has never liked me but I brought success and with me the only thing is success and passing the club th Anderson And Winwright was supposed to build on our success,and unfortunately from day one they started stripping down the club .like Gary Ekins and many other supporters I watch the demise of a club I have supported for 70 plus years ,but I won't give up
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Re: A motion of no confidence in the Board
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I'm curious to understand what people mean when they say they "have no confidence in the Board". I realise that Gary's question was largely rhetorical but he provided plenty of context and commentary. A number of people have since replied, many of whom just gave a simple thumbs up or down.
Do they want the whole Board to resign? If so, what do they want to happen afterwards?
Or do they have no confidence in one or more of the individual members of the Board? My view is that one of them is occasionally interviewed on here - he may have no news to share just now; he may have family or other reasons why the promised update has not appeared - but he retains my confidence at the moment. Two of them are very rarely heard from, so it's kinda difficult to have an opinion on them. One of them seems as much use as a chocolate teapot.
I asked the question a few days ago "what would you do if the Club were put up for sale?" - the most liked reply was "Panic about the future of the club even more than usual", which seems out of kilter with the consensus forming from the replies to Gary's confidence motion.
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6 people
Re: A motion of no confidence in the Board
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So the board resign - what's plan B?
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Re: A motion of no confidence in the Board
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If leaving Kingsmeadow without a definitive plan for a new stadium is a failing, how is getting rid of the Board through a motion of no confidence without anyone else to take over not making the same mistake that they are accused of?
Edited by Nick Garland at 12:44:08 on 25th July 2022
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4 people 3 people
Re: A motion of no confidence in the Board
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I think it’s fair to say that Gary’s post and poll was more indicative than democratic process. No one is suggesting turfing a board out and starting from scratch.
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Re: A motion of no confidence in the Board
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No one is suggesting turfing a board out and starting from scratch
To be honest, each passing week I'm becoming more and more inclined to start focussing on the second part of that sentence: starting from scratch with a team based in and representing Kingston.
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Re: A motion of no confidence in the Board
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I would also support the idea of a football club in Kingston that represents Kingston. Of course I would rather that be Kingstonian, but that doesn't seem to be a possibility.
"Hey Google: tell me the history of why Enfield Town were established"
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3 people
Re: A motion of no confidence in the Board
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I’m confident if Kingstonian don’t till the gap someone else will
some will think that doesn’t matter, but I think it does
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2 people 1 person
Re: A motion of no confidence in the Board
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I agree, it does matter & my Enfield example is a scenario as to what could happen.
Look at Enfield/Enfield 1893/Enfield... then look at Enfield Town. The new team is now a well supported strong Step 3 side, the original team is now part of the furniture at Step 5 currently playing in Bishop's Stortford.
The fact that the new team plays at an athletics ground is also eerily foreshadowing.
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3 people
Re: A motion of no confidence in the Board
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The advantage we have over Enfield at the moment is that we are still united and our board hasn't pocketed the cash in the bank for themselves.
Hopefully we end up with a ground like theirs
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2 people
Re: A motion of no confidence in the Board
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But isn’t that what a vote of no confidence means? They are no longer fit to hold their positions.
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Re: A motion of no confidence in the Board
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Since this forum does not purport to be a constitutional body enacting formal procedure, the meaning of "no confidence in the board" can equally encompass lack of confidence in the current direction or policy or lack of confidence in particular individuals. I think you are canny enough to realise this. It may well be that the board, as it currently stands, does change direction or alters its composition, without need for wholesale resignation or restructuring. What Gary really seems to be calling for, rhetorically, is at the very least a recognition that the situation K's now find themselves in, as of July 2022, is terrifyingly uncertain and dangerous. And that something needs to change. This is what the thread represents. Some K's fans may be less worried than others but let's engage in good faith arguments not the tactics of distraction.
Of course the search for a new ground is difficult and may never prove successful. Everyone can agree on that. But there are other aspects of the present predicament which do lie within the club's control: groundshare, communication, marketing and on-pitch management.
I would preface this by saying that i do not think the Board were necessarily wrong to cut the playing budget and consolidate. That was a rational move.
For my part, I think the move to Mitcham is a disaster. It cuts K's off from the borough. When it was announced, the pill was sweetened by apparent progress on a new ground. Now we are left with exile that may be indefinite. While the ground search continues, the highest priority should be K's playing as close to Kingston as possible. It is a tremendous stroke of fortune that Hampton are installing 3G and yet there has been no indication that the board have any interest at all in taking advantage of that and re-approaching our erstwhile neighbours. Before Mr Garland and others say "but perhaps they are interested and commercial sensitivities mean they cannot say so publicly", i would reply that there has been no such indication even behind the scenes and indeed to the contrary. There may also be scope to re-engage with Casuals. They have not found a new tenant, as expected, and their Board are - to put it mildly - divided on strategic direction.
Finally, the reality of being in Mitcham also makes the following questions even more stark: what is Kingstonian now? What are we even doing, as we trudge loyally onto tubes and trams and fill up our cars with petrol and climb aboard supporters club coaches for home games? are we indeed better off as a Step 5/6 club playing in/near Kingston with basic facilities and security of tenure of some kind, achieved via the remaining Womble money, than a nomad, zombie south London team clinging on to Step 3/4 as that money diminishes? This is not a question we ever thought we'd be asking ourselves. But it is not unreasonable to ask it. We have two assets left: the money and our remaining fans - how are these two assets to be utilised so that K's survive?
Edited by WeHateWombles at 13:56:51 on 25th July 2022
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Re: A motion of no confidence in the Board
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1. We’ve been in the same situation as we were at Leatherhead except our hopes has been dashed numerous times.
2. I think all Ks are worried & don’t believe the future is bright.
3. No guarantees Hampton will want us even with a 3G pitch.
4. We have no assets, our income is gate receipts & sponsorship of players & games/ball.
5. Traveling to home games now is getting more use of my £252.30 Zone 1-5 Oyster card. Instead of getting 2 buses it’s a train to Wimbledon then tram (131 takes about a week to get to Wimbledon so it’s easier to get the train from my local station Norbiton & it’s 3 stops & about 9/10 minutes to Wimbledon then the tram).
6. The casuals bridge is burnt & probably unfixable. So that’s dead in the waters.
7. What is Ks - WHO EFFING KNOWS anymore, a groundhopping club that’s dying & no closer to a home. Plus a team the borough, local councilor & MP & leader of the Liberal Democrats don’t know exists. Unless we have our 15 minutes of fame
8. Remaining fans- there was about 80-100 on Saturday, okay it wasn’t advertised but if the remaining pre season games & Margate games don’t end well the come Wingate on August 17th the crowd attendance will be poor. I had to drag myself to go Saturday because I really couldn’t be bothered because I knew it was going to be terrible (wasn’t wrong sadly)
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Re: A motion of no confidence in the Board
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‘Something needs to change, that’s what the thread represents’. If something needs to change who are going to do the changing if it’s not going to be the current board. At the moment it seems no one on this forum Is going to fulfil this role.
By almeans discuss but seems a waste of energy if no end result.
I think we need to concentrate on continuing to increase the supporters club membership. A ladies team re introduced for the reasons in my previous post. Also a stadium fund account opened by the supporters club ( seperate account to ring fenced funds). Let’s get the communication back to the levels of last season.
Just before anyone comes on that the ring fenced funds have reduced. My understanding was that the money provided a portion for ground rental and I assumed the two amounts were specified.
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Re: A motion of no confidence in the Board
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i'm not a member of the Supporters' Club... for me they seem way tied up to the club itself. but I’m sure it has good parts that maybe aren’t aimed at me
on the substantive, i think the board are probably doing their best at what they consider the goals of the club to be. but i wonder if those aims are what's wrong. Of course you can't succeed at something that is impossiible.
I've always recognised i'm in a minority that thinks playing in Kingston is more important than playing at a higher level away from the town / borough. I also realise I'm in a minority that thinks aiming for ownership of a ground is not a sensible business plan for where we are right now. But is that minority growing now the fantasy of Chessington(s) is not happening?
But where is everyone else at on this. Of course we can't judge it by a message board, but how IS it judged?
Edited by jon tolley at 14:36:14 on 25th July 2022
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Re: A motion of no confidence in the Board
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I think most people aren’t supporters members
With Chessington, yeah that’s dead. So what’s plan X/Y/Z what plan were on with the ground. Like I said in a post on this long thread somewhere, most if not everywhere is probably earmarked for housing development. What ever land is free it’s already got dibs on houses which makes owning a ground of our own impossible & nailing the nails into the coffin of Kingstonian Football Club. I don’t know what help the council are offering in the search of a home.
Hate to sound doom & gloom, there is a very little time till the coffin is ready & Ks will follow clubs like Dorking F.C & Walton Casuals and cease to exist. As each day goes by the hope goes & the ground & coffin is getting prepared.
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Re: A motion of no confidence in the Board
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At this point in time the board have been unable to progress our own ground. We do not know the extent of their efforts and details of any enquiries and negotiations. I haven’t seen any post on here that would inspire confidence that anyone could do any better or even volunteer to be part of a new board. Prove me wrong and post a reply saying you would be willing to be a director of the present or a reformed Kingstonian Football Club. No politician answers please.
I respect Gary’s opinion and is no way a criticism
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Re: A motion of no confidence in the Board
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aaaalso
i don't think you need to have the alternative if you do have no confidence. it's a valid (although maybe not helpful) statement to say you think things are existentially bad, without knowing the solution. and i don't think the new leaders would necessarily come from those who do state no confidence. eg. Liz Truss
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Re: A motion of no confidence in the Board
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I am trying to establish if there is a solution . Are there people on this forum willing to put themselves forward. If everyone is posting assuming someone else will take up the reins I think we can say that’s not the case unless it’s someone we don’t know.
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Re: A motion of no confidence in the Board
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So the board resign - what's plan B?
What’s plan A?
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Re: A motion of no confidence in the Board
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I don't speak for the board, but I'm guessing:
Plan A: treading water.
there's no prospect of a new purpose built ground. we've burnt bridges with Cor-Cas. and (needed) budget cuts have been made. and the tactic is something like "No news is good news". The move to Mitcham is a mistake but we're committed now. The Supporters Club will continue to fund the club where advertising revenues haven't been arranged. But question whether or not away travel is viable. It'll be a bad season and we'll lose 10% of our fans, but that's not enough to make us go bust. We'll lose another 10% the following year, but again that's not enough to make us go bust. In the meantime we'll hope that something comes along to save us.
Plan Q: jump before we sink.
take a voluntary relegation of two divisions. Play at Kingsmeadow Athletics and use the (by then) £500k to get a portacabin to make facilities slightly better. Look to the long-term with a arrangement with the school there and begin a 20-year project.
there's Plans B to P in between. anyone wanna guess them?
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Re: A motion of no confidence in the Board
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I write this as a non K's supporting outsider, but Jon's suggestion of playing at the Athletics stadium in a lower level of football makes perfect sense. Playing in your home town is everything, irrespective of your level, and such a move would boost the club's support, re-establish Kingstonian in Kingston and buy time to find something more suitable in the borough. The trick will be getting the local council to approve it and convincing the athletics club that KFC wants to work in partnership with them, though this is small beer compared to the problems of separate planning permissions, NIMBYs and environmental concerns that might arise from a new stadium plan.
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The Problem is
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There is an assumption that it would be possible for Ks to play at the Athletics Stadium if we dropped down to the Combined Counties league. Unfortunately, it is not that simple. The current football pitch is too small for step 3 (the Isthmian League). The problem is that the minimum pitch size for the Combined Counties is the same as for the Isthmian League. To play at the Athletics Centre, we would have to drop 4 divisions and play in the Surrey Intermediate League.
This would be a ridiculous proposition.
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Re: The Problem is
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Simple solution; make the pitch longer.
Time to get real John the club are fucked!
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Re: The Problem is
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Simple when you say it quickly. The problem is that this would only be possible if the current hammer and javelin area were ripped up. Why would the current athletics users be agreeable to this? The venue is not, in any case available to us.
There do though appear to be potential options for a partnership with an educational establishment. I personally think this is our most realistic way to proceed
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Re: The Problem is
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Simple when you say it quickly. The problem is that this would only be possible if the current hammer and javelin area were ripped up. Why would the current athletics users be agreeable to this? The venue is not, in any case available to us.
There do though appear to be potential options for a partnership with an educational establishment. I personally think this is our most realistic way to proceed
You work with the athletic people & the people that did Enfield Town ground. They’ve got a good ground with the athletic track around it. It pleases them & we get a decent ground. Though we’d need to put in a bar, turnstiles, changing room & a place to get food.
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Re: The Problem is
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100%. the biggest lie told to fans, bigger than Lovelace, is that you can’t fit a football pitch inside an athletics track.
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Re: The Problem is
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What lie? There is surely no need for such language. What has been said is that the current pitch is too small for senior football. To rectify this it would be necessary to move the hammer and javelin throwing area and the achievability of this has been questioned. Those are two facts and one opinion . No lies. You may have a different opinion which is fair enough _
Edited by John Bangs at 08:21:44 on 1st August 2022
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Re: The Problem is
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100%. the biggest lie told to fans, bigger than Lovelace, is that you can’t fit a football pitch inside an athletics track.
Everyone knows you can do it, As long it’s like Enfield Town or Chelmsford City it’s fine. Hornchurch No thanks you.
The problem is when you have grounds like Hornchurch or old Walton & Hersham ground, then you have those comments. Hopefully we don’t as well if we can build & work with the David Weir Ground
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Re: The Problem is
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"Why would the current athletics users be agreeable to this? "
I can think of 750,000 reasons why they might be agreeable, but we'll never know if the right questions haven't been asked by the right people.
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Re: The Problem is
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John.
Is the athletics stadium more or less possible than the horse field in Lovelace?
Gary.
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Re: The Problem is
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In my personal view, neither are at all likely. To answer your question though , I would say Lovelace is even less likely than the Athletics Stadium.
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Re: The Problem is
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Lovelace is even less likely than the Athletics Stadium
Hi John; that is interesting. How have you arrived at that conclusion when the last we heard from the club on the matter was that it was an exciting prospect and that we should be playing there either by August 2023 or August 2024. Have you heard something from the club that they haven't announced? Do you not think they should have said something by now?
As the head of the SC, are you not concerned that the club are seemingly still pursuing a move to a ground that doesn't exist and won't ever exist? I'm not a member of the SC so wasn't at the AGM, but can I assume that the ground was point one on the agenda? It is obviously far more important than really anything else related to the club at this present time.
Do you still have confidence in the Board?
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Re: The Problem is
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As we are asking questions.
Gary, What is the alternative to the present board of directors? No one on this forum has indicated any interest in being involved in the administration of the club.
If there is no alternative then you question about confidence in the board is akin to turkeys voting for Christmas.
I would expect if the present club folded there would be people come forward to reform far lower down the pyramid.
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Re: The Problem is
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As we are asking questions.
Gary, What is the alternative to the present board of directors? No one on this forum has indicated any interest in being involved in the administration of the club.
If there is no alternative then you question about confidence in the board is akin to turkeys voting for Christmas.
I would expect if the present club folded there would be people come forward to reform far lower down the pyramid.
1. They not publicly going to say where alternative is because someone will dangle $$$$$$$$$$ & we’re lose out again
2. While Gary made some good points, no one going to invest in a club with no assets. So we’d probably fold & if re started no guarantee that we’d be playing in the borough.
3. How many would go to the reformed Ks & we’d probably just linger in the combined Counties league. Stagnating & the fans that went to the reformed Ks possibly find another team & then reformed Ks would die eventually.
I’m not defending the board & trying to be honest & neutral, I’m thinking realistic & looking at other clubs that stagnated. Look at Walton & Hersham, took them long time to get back to the isthmian league or AFC Croydon Athletic. Since reforming they’ve barely moved up the leagues. They’ve switched from Southern Combination League with Croydon FC to Combined Countries league.
I’m sure there are plenty of clubs restarting & climbed the leagues but they’ve had assets, fans & money. We have no assets, few fans & some money. We need a ground ASAP but we’re relevant in the football world but in the borough we irrelevant.
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Re: The Problem is
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Since moving from Kingston to Sussex,I've supported the local county league side. There is no sense of 'stagnation' at the club,or have I come across it at other grounds I've been to.
Your assessment of Ks situation is hard to argue against and is also a vote of no confidence in the support base being able/willing to keep Ks going or form a ' phoenix' club?.
If so you might be right
Ksuals
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2 people
Re: The Problem is
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The present board will only fold when they have exhausted all money in directors fees and such ,as far as successors go why not speak to Jim Cochrane he is the last successful chairman I remember
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1 person 1 person
Re: The Problem is
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I have formed my own impression from conversations with local councillors. While I believe there is a desire to help the Club, the problem which you yourself have highlighted, is that planning consent for a stadium with floodlights now seems very unlikely to be forthcoming.
An update from the Club will, no doubt, be forthcoming shortly.
I am the Chair of the Supporters Club Committee which work as a team. We are accountable to our members.
Personally, I am very grateful to the Clubs Directors for all their work and financial support in sustaining Kingstonian. Without this, the Club would have vanished some years ago.
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Re: A motion of no confidence in the Board
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that's my feeling absolutely, but i think it's the case we're in a minority.
yet i don't think we'd be in a minority if we were given an accurate assessment of what the other options really are. I note that the build costs on new builds in construction are rising hugely. Council had a meeting just last night where it concluded the budgets agreed in 2020 on the estate that backs onto Kingsmeadow are no longer viable as construction costs have risen by 30%.
what we might have been able to buy with £850k a few years ago, won't deliver anything like that in a few years time.
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Re: A motion of no confidence in the Board
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Where does the figure of 850,000 come from is there not supposed to be a million some where accruing a small amount of interest .
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Re: A motion of no confidence in the Board
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There are several examples (Maidstone - original version = certainly spring to mind) of clubs that were doomed as soon as they sold up; wasting their stadium windfall on rent payments and abortive planning applications while their crowds spiralled downwards. This should be a major consideration for clubs in similar positions today. Cut your losses, play in you local area - at whatever level - and rebuild from there. It's the only long-term solution. And the solution for Ks is going to be long-term.
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7 people
Re: A motion of no confidence in the Board
Views: 1617
Some very good points made Gary.
Ground - a club playing in the 7th tier of English football isn’t attractive prospect compared being in the 5/6th tier. Plus without someone who goes to Ks as a local councilor pushes us down the list. Given the current housing issue that’s always going to take priority of a team most of Kingston probably doesn’t even know exist. Kingston lived of the scumbles till they went back to Merton. They’ll living off Chelsea till they go Stanford Bridge in 3-5 years.
Old Manger - Hayden was a decent manager but had no plan B. Plus kept getting midfielders in when defender were injured. THOUGH he did make going to Ks enjoyable (at times, can’t think of a gaffer who made going to games enjoyable) plus gave us cup runs, one’s we could only dream off.
Lee O’Leary - I think the holiday was planned before he got the job. I don’t think he was expecting Hayden to quit & to get promoted to the hot seat. Plus he has kids so that restricts on when you can take them. He did wonders with a small budget at Potters Bar (a sign for the future)
Marketing- 100% agreed with what you said about advertising yesterday’s game, even made note of it a couple of days ago. The social media has been fairly quiet during pre season. Don’t know if I should be worried.
Summary - we couldn’t become fan owned because we haven’t got the numbers to back the club & if the board was to sell, we kinda don’t have any assets of value. We’re home hopping till we get a home ( that ain’t ever going to happen), our income as a club is gates receipts & sponsorship plus any money made in sales of players. We are screwed & either way barring a miracle we’re dying a slow painful death. We have a MP & leader of a party who I don’t think knows who we are, a bunch of councilors who are making Kingston like Croydon with the increase of high rises though they taking their time on what to do with the kingfisher leisure centre (fix the roof or build a new leisure centre with a high rise) .
Honestly I don’t know what to think about Ks now. It feels like we’ve hit another low & expectations ain’t high as recent season has been. TBH I couldn’t be bothered to go yesterday but I had to drag my self onto South Western & the tram just to see a empty stadium & a typical pre season friendly. A possible worry for this & maybe next season.
I’ve probably wasted peoples time writing this, so apologies
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3 people
Re: A motion of no confidence in the Board
Views: 1384
I've some sympathy with the board over the future ground, which is of course our main issue - it's a colossal ask to find somewhere. They probably have been naive, and it's worth asking we we need to somehow employ a specialist to help on this front. But I'm not that surprised we haven't yet found somewhere, and I reluctantly accepted that for a good few years we would be in a local groundshare treading water.
However, we're not local any more and I don't think we are treading water any more. The double blow of: (a) a move to Mitcham, and (b) losing the manager strikes me as really serious. I think attendances will be really low this season, lower than Fetcham Grove. It won't help if we don't have, to be frank, a serious team.
Hayden was not perfect, but there are certain things he did very well - namely, knowing the league and how to get good players in, and understanding that he needed to communicate with the fanbase. Specific concerns about his tactics etc seem fairly irrelevant to me in the grand scheme of things. He could have been a big figurehead for the club for the medium-term. No offence to O'Leary but I just can't see that happening with him, or most managers.
While Ks were playing in the borough and getting 300+ fans, it felt like there was something to work with. I'm not sure that will be the case if we're playing in Mitcham and getting 200.
I always thought the suggestions about the death of Ks were a bit OTT but it now must be a serious concern.
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9 people
Re: A motion of no confidence in the Board
Views: 1472
I haven't voted either way on Gary's poll although I've liked MC's post above which I largely agree with.
I do have gratitude for the board, and Mark in particular, for keeping the club going for the last 16 years. Mark and Malcolm took it over in a precarious position and have kept it going and given us 16 years of mostly competitive sides to watch every week. That was certainly not a given in 2006.
Being a director is quite a thankless job, getting the grief when things go wrong on and off the pitch, while all the adulation in the good times goes to players and managers. I certainly don't have the time or money to put in to the club that they do; I'm certainly thankful for what they've done over the years.
I agree with other comments on here that if not them, then who? I'd have been open to voting yes in the community ownership referendum had people been putting themselves forward and making a case for how they'd do a better job. In the absence of that, and also financial transparency, I voted no. I don't really see that anything is different now.
Nonetheless, that gratitude can't exempt them from criticism or being held to account, when they're responsible for the club we all love.
I accept the stadium question is extremely difficult, perhaps unsolvable given our limited funds. I doubt they actually thought it was in our best interests to leave KM, but saying so would have helped get that AFC money rather than being pushed out anyway given the break clause.
Nonethelss there have been some big strategic mistakes on the ground, in particular pursuing a high risk strategy of only going for a perfect site that we own; only pursuing one option at a time; not engaging with the fans at all; and not bringing in any outside expertise.
They should have been far more open from the start about the difficulty of the situation we're in and engaged with the fans much more openly. I'm sure people would have been much more sympathetic to our position, as well as being able to offer our own ideas.
Instead, it's just been occasional one way communication from the board; amd that's come in the form of boosterism as we've moved from one unrealistic scheme to the next. Bird was part of this too - 'the envy of non league' came from him, not the board - and there's a fine line between trying to keep people's spirits up and just losing credibility about what you're saying.
The on pitch situation is extremely worrying, to be this far into pre season and still not have a clue what our team will look like at Margate. Contrast that with last season where the squad we played our first friendly with was basically the squad we had until Christmas. I don't begrudge Leo a holiday with his family if he'd already paid for it but I do wonder why he hadn't got the squad in a better shape before going.
18th place this season would now be a massive relief given where we are. I fear we won't achieve it.
So all in all, I don't want the board to go but I do want to see a change of approach from them, to be far more open to listening to and engaging with the fans. We can't go on like this.
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10 people
Re: A motion of no confidence in the Board
Views: 1294
I can't vote either way on Gary's motion either.
There just isn't enough information from the club/board
regards news on attempts to secure a site for a new home.
The board must have been subsidising the player budget in an attempt to get us up to the next level and unfortunately this failed, so the manager and players leave to accomodate a much reduced player budget. I was vaguely optomistic that Lee and Spencer would assemble a squad to keep us at this level, but the RPV game was hugely dissapointing and it worries me terribly that certain players confirmed has signed have been absent for most of the PSF's so far, as well as the manager. Going back to the ground situation, someone has previously said that our best and only option is to enter a partnership with an established sporting venue that has the room, planning and facilities for Ks
to construct and add a small stadium to their own facilities under a 'community' banner and hopefully within the borough.
So, come on Lee, Spencer and the board, give us some information on the squad and a new ground.
Fans will vote with their feet.
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1 person
Re: A motion of no confidence in the Board
Views: 1498
I doubt people have read the thumbs up and thumbs down criteria you gave them (even though you put this in capitals!). Traditionally you thumb up or down based on the comment. Very much doubt 17 people (currently) have no confidence in the board at least to the extent that they want them gone which is what a no confidence vote traditionally means (unless you are Boris Johnson).
I would be terrified if the current board left because I don't see anyone wanting or capable of stepping in.
Re Kingsmeadow I don't know the specific options for the board, but from everything I have heard AFCW could have broken the lease (which was relatively short anyway) with much lower levels of compensation than what they gave us. Also anecdotally it seems Chelsea didn't want us there but I have no way of knowing whether we could have stayed at peppercorn rent until a new ground was found (decades maybe) while still having the money AFCW gave us. I have no idea what AFCW and Chelsea would have done had we stood our ground and said it's down to you to make us homeless and take the bad publicity but very high poker stakes to have done that.
Once it became clear Casuals wanted us out I don't know what other ground options we had and whenever an alternative is mentioned (even if available which we don't know) there are plenty of people who don't like the alternative. It seems inconceivable to me that the board wouldn't have picked the best option available from a set of poor options open to them.
It's been disappointing we've been given hope with potential ground developments only to find they are non starters but equally did anyone seriously believe it was going to be easy to find a ground in Kingston that we had a stake in for £1m?
We're all upset at the position the club is in but we need to be realistic that from the minute we went bankrupt and ended up with Khosla we were potentially heading for this situation anyway and that there are no obvious people out there who could do a better job unless they were willing to pump a fortune into the club.
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4 people
Re: A motion of no confidence in the Board
Views: 1428
It's been disappointing we've been given hope with potential ground developments only to find they are non starters but equally did anyone seriously believe it was going to be easy to find a ground in Kingston that we had a stake in for £1m?.
well, the board said this when we announced it was in the best interests of Kingstonian to leave Kingston. “This has left us with unbelievable assets so we just need to move on and get on with it,” Anderson says. “The future of this club is rosy – rosier than it’s ever been, in fact. But the price we’ve had to pay is leaving this ground.”
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1 person
Re: A motion of no confidence in the Board
Views: 1337
Fair enough but I'd put that comment into the category of PR and putting a positive spin on it rather than necessarily believing things really are "rosier than they've ever been".
I suppose technically, unless we could have bought Kingsmeadow back, you could argue £1m in the bank was "rosier" than not having £1m in the bank and forever having to rent a ground where eventually we might have to pay a market rate for a groundshare with no income other than gate receipts.
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1 person
Re: A motion of no confidence in the Board
Views: 1365
yeah, I think you're right.
but it's the spin / exuberance / naivety which has allowed K's fans to sit on their hands for years / decades. and now, only now, does there really seem a worry about the long term future of the club. I put it that if from the off we were like "this is going to be a very hard decade for the club, we have no idea about a long term ground situation" then...
a) we'd be more realistic about where we are now. we might not have this irrational belief that ownership is the only longterm option.
b) we wouldn't have taken a 2-year short term arrangement in Mitcham while waiting for Lovelace to be open
c) we'd have investigated Southern League ground share options
d) we'd have investigated the Athletics Track way more seriously, not least with the biggest estate regeneration the borough will see in a generation backing onto it.
e) we'd have talked to the council about Tolworth options about 5 years earlier than we did and
f) we would be having regular conversations with Southwark Diocesan Board of Education about their multi million pound investment in Kingston.
like everyone else, I have respect for Mark and for the board. their time, energy and money has kept the club going. but also like everyone else I think we need to be realistic and honest. I cannot believe we haven't had an update about the ground. it's so poor.
Edited by jon tolley at 15:20:20 on 24th July 2022
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6 people
Re: A motion of no confidence in the Board
Views: 1213
Maybe being realistic is accepting that the AFCW payment is the only thing that's going to keep Ks going.
Since moving to Sussex and following local County League side maybe that level ground is all you get for what's left of the money.
Would it be possible for Ks to find a suitable site in the borough,maybe similar to Cor-Cas?
Ksuals
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Re: A motion of no confidence in the Board
Views: 1173
LWould it be possible for Ks to find a suitable site in the borough,maybe similar to Cor-Cas?
my gut says if it was doable it woulda been done. hope something magical turns up, but what in the meantime?
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1 person
Re: A motion of no confidence in the Board
Views: 1268
LWould it be possible for Ks to find a suitable site in the borough,maybe similar to Cor-Cas?
my gut says if it was doable it woulda been done. hope something magical turns up, but what in the meantime?
The problem is what land is available, would guess every available piece of land has been earmarked for Housing Development
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Re: A motion of no confidence in the Board
Views: 1143
It would be a shame if a smaller scale facilities were impossible in the borough.
Certainly here on West Sussex a few clubs at county level have grounds in sports fields such as along Windsor AVE,and a nearby one at a recreation ground like King George in Kingston Road.
Prehaps the board have dismissed this solution even if available.
I would think a few Ks fans still think it's possible to survive as a Isthmian /Con South club.
Is that getting less likely with every passing season?
Ksuals
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Re: A motion of no confidence in the Board
Views: 1192
The trouble is that even something small-scale, ie Combined Counties, has huge costs. A playing surface, barriers round the pitch and the site, floodlights, PA system, clubhouse, changing rooms, toilets, car park, hard standing round the pitch, running water, electricity...
You then have three huge barriers to all of that: finding land in one of the most expensive parts in the country; getting planning permission, when what land there is is mostly green belt and residents won't want anything that brings noise, traffic and parking trouble; and paying for it.
If we actually achieved all of that, then the improvements to bring it from step 6 to step 3 are relatively modest: 250 seats, a few extra toilets, turnstiles, etc. And there's Football Foundation money to help with that.
But the really difficult bit is getting all that infrastructure to begin with, so the more we can start with the better. By far the most realistic of the club's proposals so far was looking to improve King George's Field. But ultimately it's Casuals' ground so it was their prerogative not to go ahead with it.
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5 people
Re: A motion of no confidence in the Board
Views: 1061
Well they should join Chessington and Epsom/Ewell and play in the Southern Combination.,where many of those requirements are not needed.
There have been many sites put forward that would appear to have what you list in situ already.
I think the biggest barrier you list is residential objections and if any sports clubs / grounds would want Ks.
I wonder are there any other council parks where a similar facility toCCFC is possible?
But then you would probably be right in the cost being too high to build from scratch.
Ksuals
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Re: A motion of no confidence in the Board
Views: 1068
The Southern Combination is the same level as Combined Counties, I'm pretty sure everything I listed is a requirement. That's the trouble with the idea expressed in this thread and previously that we could drop a couple of divisions and stay in Kingston. If you build a step 6 ground you're probably 90% of the way to having a step 3 ground.
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1 person
Re: A motion of no confidence in the Board
Views: 1032
Well if they are, there are several clubs I've been to over the last 4/5 seasons whose ground/ facilities don't meet all those requirements.
Viewed from afar the prospects for Ks with each passing season seem less and less optimistic.
Hope I'm wrong.
Ksuals
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Re: A motion of no confidence in the Board
Views: 1048
Yes, I think the FA made the requirements more strict at that level recently. eg Worcester Park were relegated out of the Combined Counties because they don't have floodlights.
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Re: A motion of no confidence in the Board
Views: 987
Yes, I think the FA made the requirements more strict at that level recently. eg Worcester Park were relegated out of the Combined Counties because they don't have floodlights.
Or enough seats, won the league & relegated
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Re: A motion of no confidence in the Board
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Staines Lammas also got demoted to the Surrey Elite Intermediate League alongside them that year for the same reasons.
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1 person
Re: A motion of no confidence in the Board
Views: 1053
That's interesting SDG,might be several clubs getting a call from the FA.
I wonder if that would apply to all divisions of County Leagues. I would hope not,as several clubs in div 2 down here would suffer.
If it wouldn't disrupt completion or winter training for athletics, those suggestioning the athletics stadium might be onto something.
Ksuals
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2 people
Re: A motion of no confidence in the Board
Views: 1123
I think they're requirements to step 6, ie the lowest level of senior football. So in Sussex that would cover the Premier and Division 1 but not Division 2, so those clubs are probably OK.
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Re: A motion of no confidence in the Board
Views: 1158
All of this is great but half of our meagre support would break off to watch "at least we are in the Borough" fc in the Leatherhead and District Div 4 and some of us would stay loyal and watch "disappearing v quickly but i can get there" fc.
People's front of Judea springs to mind.
Sad times for this great club,
I miss HB's updates - is this new manager still in post?
Sussex Ks
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2 people
Re: A motion of no confidence in the Board
Views: 1082
Dartford were homeless for 13 seasons and groundshared at Gravesend and also in Essex at Purfleet. Horsham were homeless for 12 seasons and shared at Worthing and Lancing (also Horsham ymca). I am sure there are other clubs with similar timelines. Wealdstone now play in a different borough. Though the situation is far from ideal I think the pessinism is being overdone.
If we get relegated at least we will have more attractive fixtures with local rivals . Even promotion with further distances the fixtures are more attractive.
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3 people 2 people
Re: A motion of no confidence in the Board
Views: 1063
Pessimism cannot be controlled - it is what it is - we've been getting Shafted since Khosla - its my party and I'll cry if i want to
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1 person
Re: A motion of no confidence in the Board
Views: 1042
If Avalanche by Leonard Cohen fits the mood then fine by me
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Re: A motion of no confidence in the Board
Views: 1107
I would follow whichever team played Tears for Fears.
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3 people 2 people
Re: A motion of no confidence in the Board
Views: 989
I would follow whichever team played Tears for Fears.
Some people including a respected journalist who appeared on a certain BBC football magazine show a while back, hated the song & wanted it changed. Can’t remember what he wanted instead, so I won’t spread misinformation & guess what song he chose as a alternative.
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1 person 2 people
Re: A motion of no confidence in the Board
Views: 1191
I would follow whichever team played Tears for Fears.
the most worrying thing is that this is clearly true.
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3 people
Re: A motion of no confidence in the Board
Views: 1088
Was due to see them last friday at Sussex CCC Hove but they pulled out - was eagerly awaiting "world"
Making do with Alison Moyet this eve
"kingston town" was my fav run out
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1 person
Re: A motion of no confidence in the Board
Views: 1146
Oh if only the ' at least....' option came to pass a few decades ago I could of got a game for Ks
Ksuals
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