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A phoenix club

By jon tolley7/12/2023 11:24Thu Dec 7 11:24:18 2023

Views: 8296

at what point do the fans decide it's time for a new Kingston football club?

if not now, then when?

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Re: A phoenix club

By DaveK (Haver of thoughts)8/12/2023 16:44Fri Dec 8 16:44:52 2023In response to A phoenix clubTop of thread

Views: 6063

The best recent example I can think of where this worked was with Clapton CFC breaking from Clapton FC over disputes with the owner. Clapton CFC have all the fans, their old ground back and are thriving with men's and women's teams.

What they have going for them is a distinct political identity that attracted fans and funding from outside the non league supporter base, active efforts to appeal to fans outside their locale, and that the fans observed an impeccable boycott of the original Clapton FC (not going at all or watching over the fence from a nearby alley and so putting no money through the gates or bar).

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Re: A phoenix club

By Paddy (Paddy1)7/12/2023 11:28Thu Dec 7 11:28:36 2023In response to A phoenix clubTop of thread

Views: 6227

Last year when we had more fans would have been the best time. The second best time is now.

Can't speak for everyone else's appetite for this but damn it man I am starving.

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Re: A phoenix club

By Filipo7/12/2023 13:13Thu Dec 7 13:13:05 2023In response to Re: A phoenix clubTop of thread

Views: 6172

I absolutely hate this idea; you would give up the club’s history, traditions, name etc.

But

What choice have we got left with a board that have caused the club to be at its lowest point, don’t want to engage with the fans and feel they can do no wrong?

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Re: A phoenix club

By Paddy (Paddy1)7/12/2023 13:45Thu Dec 7 13:45:22 2023In response to Re: A phoenix clubTop of thread

Views: 6120

Depends if we are a breakaway club or a phoenix club.

A breakaway club (Enfield Town, AFC Wimbledon etc) abandons the history of the still existing entities regardless of what they may or may not assume thenselves... a phoenix club is a new entity built from the spirit of an old one that no longer exists (Hornchurch, Aldershot etc) & claims the history as a direct lineage.

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Re: A phoenix club

By malkay8/12/2023 09:38Fri Dec 8 09:38:09 2023In response to Re: A phoenix clubTop of thread

Views: 5977

New club name - Real Kingstonian

Sorted. Now there's no doubt.

At least with this idea we can properly explore the athletics track proposal.

Also once this lot in charge get bored of running what is fast becoming dog and duck FC, with matches only attended by their wives, other relatives and a handful of bootlickers, when they cease to exist the history pre-phoenix can be absorbed.

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Re: A phoenix club

By Korky110/12/2023 21:08Sun Dec 10 21:08:16 2023In response to Re: A phoenix clubTop of thread

Views: 5679

I am no bootlicker,and I'll kick the arse. Of anyone who says so.

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Re: A phoenix club

By Filipo7/12/2023 14:13Thu Dec 7 14:13:56 2023In response to Re: A phoenix clubTop of thread

Views: 6116

Good points Paddy.

We would be breakaway if we set up in the next few years.

Then in 5 years when there is no money left(go check the figures and make your own mind up) we could then become a phoenix club.

I think this type of conversation gives us a bit of hope finally that we would still have a club in the future!

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Re: A phoenix club

By Paddy (Paddy1)7/12/2023 14:19Thu Dec 7 14:19:36 2023In response to Re: A phoenix clubTop of thread

Views: 6106

My thoughts exactly... although I have the timeline a little more concentrated in my mind...

The second this becomes a reality & 25% of the existing match going fans (plus all of the people like myself who are voting with our wallets) decide they want to be a part of this new entity, Kingstonian FC becomes critically unsustainable & probably dies within a year or two... maybe quicker if there is no one left to oppose the powers that be from siphoning off what money is left through their nefarious means.

Before a ball is even kicked, we'd theoretically be a phoenix club (although I think the reality of it is you need to apply to the FA for phoenix status).

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Re: A phoenix club

By MC7/12/2023 17:42Thu Dec 7 17:42:03 2023In response to Re: A phoenix clubTop of thread

Views: 6032

For me: if we continue to play outside the borough / local area then it's a realistic consideration.

If we return to the borough / local area then it's not. Even if we hate the way the club is run.

For me it's as a simple as that. Kingston needs a football club.

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Re: A phoenix club

By WorcesterK8/12/2023 14:37Fri Dec 8 14:37:09 2023In response to Re: A phoenix clubTop of thread

Views: 5868

I've resigned myself to the fact that I might never go to another Ks game. I'm certainly not travelling down to London to put any money into a pot that props up the current board.

However, I would absolutely be there in red and white hoops to cheer on The Kingston Road FC (or similar) in their first game in the depths of the combined counties.

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Re: A phoenix club

By JM7/12/2023 18:52Thu Dec 7 18:52:47 2023In response to Re: A phoenix clubTop of thread

Views: 6056

I was also massively against the concept until relatively recently.

I have no trust or faith in the board. They’re keeping us in the dark to an unnecessary degree. We left KM 6.5 years ago and all we’ve heard from them since is ‘be patient, we have a plan’.

There is simply no reason to believe it by this stage. We keep hearing ‘we acknowledge our communication needs to be better’ but they’ve done nothing to improve it. If anything they communicate with the fans less.

Agree with the discomfort about losing our history if we did this, but the other option might be losing our future.

I think it’s at least a conversation worth having.

Wonder what Wimbledon would do if we were to then say “actually, we’re Kingstonian now - can we have the rest of that money?”

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Re: A phoenix club

By jon tolley7/12/2023 20:36Thu Dec 7 20:36:48 2023In response to Re: A phoenix clubTop of thread

Views: 5980

fwiw my feeling is…

no-one is yet ready to set this up. but if it was done so I think it would gain momentum and finance very quickly

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Re: A phoenix club

By Mike (KsMikey)8/12/2023 09:42Fri Dec 8 09:42:14 2023In response to Re: A phoenix clubTop of thread

Views: 5920

Think it’s too early

More thought is needed because of lack of ground, lack of guarantee that a league would slot us in, lack of support beyond a strong small core group

Think Ks would have to go further down the league pyramid- possibly CC Div 1 (if that’s the step below CC Prem)

Maybe a better option would be to enact a coup d’état on CorCas (just putting it out there)

Either way I think it’s a few years early, and as pointed out we’d lose the history (we don’t have the general support of AFCW)

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Neither witty or imaginative to have one

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Re: A phoenix club - fao any CorCas fans

By Mike (KsMikey)9/12/2023 22:49Sat Dec 9 22:49:14 2023In response to Re: A phoenix clubTop of thread

Views: 5714

The point about taking over your club, the “coup d’état” comment, is purely me playing devil’s advocate and not my thoughts (and as can be seen from replies and “dislikes” not representing fans’ views

The borough is big enough for three senior clubs at present (eg Chessington & Hook, you and us; and if the time comes to pass another one or two more clubs. Long may this continue as will be our rivalry (hopefully at step 3 level, rather then any other level below step 3)

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Neither witty or imaginative to have one

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Re: A phoenix club

By MC8/12/2023 15:40Fri Dec 8 15:40:21 2023In response to Re: A phoenix clubTop of thread

Views: 5850

"Maybe a better option would be to enact a coup d’état on CorCas (just putting it out there)"

This is completely inappropriate and a mad idea anyway.

Not only is it disrespectful to Casuals (who I know some people dislike, but come on) it would be insane to think that would feel any more like 'our' club.

I hope we are back playing in the borough next season and the most likely chance of that is a groundshare with Casuals, which wasn't perfect but we regularly got crowds of about double what we're getting at the moment.

So let's not be taking the piss.

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Re: A phoenix club

By SDG (SDG (Ks))8/12/2023 17:42Fri Dec 8 17:42:26 2023In response to Re: A phoenix clubTop of thread

Views: 5804

Agree with MC. The club is dying in Mitcham and we need to come to an arrangement with one of Casuals, Met or Hampton. These sorts of comments are hardly going to win us any friends.

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Re: A phoenix club

By Paddy (Paddy1)8/12/2023 14:53Fri Dec 8 14:53:01 2023In response to Re: A phoenix clubTop of thread

Views: 5810

The worry is that we leave it for another year, more people would have just given up on this shit show entirely. You're right that more thought is needed on the idea & I'm pleased to see this little acorn is starting to germinate with discussions like this.

To be fair though I don't think there ever will be a 'right' time to pull the trigger on something like this. It's not something anyone ideally wants to have to do... I think everyone (even those who still think the board are doing a good job) agrees that the best outcome is Kingstonian FC playing in Kingston upon Thames but people are losing faith, or have entirely lost faith, in that ever being something that becomes a reality.

Personally I don't think losing our history is such a terrible thing if it secures a future, just ask Enfield Town fans... Enfield FC is just as a revered traditional name in non league football as Kingstonian is, maybe even more so than us, but they did what they had to do & now look at them! Playing in their own town (at an athletics ground, no less) with a decent support as a sustainable Step 3 side knocking on the door of Step 2. This should be our inspiration to get what we want if we are pushed into having to do it. Hell, if it matters to most we could even be like Wimbledon & just pretend that the history is ours.

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Re: A phoenix club

By berlioz8/12/2023 15:58Fri Dec 8 15:58:24 2023In response to Re: A phoenix clubTop of thread

Views: 5756

The founding of Enfield Town below has some similar circumstances. Our board don't seem like they are actively trying to pocket the cash held in an escrow account for themselves though. Rather they are Just running it down through poor decisions

The club was founded on 23 June 2001 by the Enfield Supporters' Trust after Trust members considered that the regime in charge of Enfield no longer had the interests of the club at heart and lacked sufficient will to bring about the return of the club to its home town, having left Southbury Road in 1999. This followed the chairman of Enfield withdrawing from an outline agreement with the Supporters' Trust which would have seen the Trust take over the running of a debt-free club and receiving £100,000 from money from the sale of Southbury Road which was held in an escrow account by Enfield Council. The balance of over £600,000 would have been paid to the chairman

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Re: A phoenix club

By jon tolley8/12/2023 10:08Fri Dec 8 10:08:09 2023In response to Re: A phoenix clubTop of thread

Views: 5871

I’d have CC div 1 over what we have at the moment, no question

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Re: A phoenix club

By Mike (KsMikey)8/12/2023 10:09Fri Dec 8 10:09:24 2023In response to Re: A phoenix clubTop of thread

Views: 5890

Can’t disagree there

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Neither witty or imaginative to have one

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Re: A phoenix club

By Lesmundo7/12/2023 23:41Thu Dec 7 23:41:38 2023In response to Re: A phoenix clubTop of thread

Views: 5899

This is an idea that could work, I'm pretty sure that the club could jump from step 6 to step 5 pretty quickly with money for set up, gate receipts and potential sponsorship, etc. The budget would be more than good enough.

The issue is that a ground development plan would be needed. I imagine the Athletics track would be sought as the venue, what with it being the ideal location. If it is possible then money would need to be found for changing facilities and a club house.

If the Athletics track doesn't work, there are few options for groundshare. The available grounds in the borough (Casuals and Chessington & Hook) do not seem keen on a groundshare, and neighbouring ones like Hampton or Colliers Wood would be expensive or already have an existing groundshare arrangement like CW.

It's certainly an option, just a lot of things to think about to make it work.

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Re: A phoenix club

By jon tolley8/12/2023 01:41Fri Dec 8 01:41:42 2023In response to Re: A phoenix clubTop of thread

Views: 5925

regardless of if its K’s fans or not… if there’s a gap, something will one day filll it

I think of this often /www.surreycomet.co.uk/sport/15509412.new-football-club-in-kingston-cavaliers-afc-to-play-at-kingsmeadow-athletics-stadium/

Edited by jon tolley at 01:42:10 on 8th December 2023

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Re: A phoenix club

By supahoops78/12/2023 06:45Fri Dec 8 06:45:23 2023In response to Re: A phoenix clubTop of thread

Views: 5891

So, what happened to Kingston Cavaliers?
Do they still exist?, Do they run an extensive youth set up?
Do they use the athletics pitch without hinderance from other sporting actiivities?

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Re: A phoenix club

By jon tolley8/12/2023 07:24Fri Dec 8 07:24:28 2023In response to Re: A phoenix clubTop of thread

Views: 5871

as far as I know nothing. never had played a game…

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