The K's In Point
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by www.kingstonian.com28/7/2023 12:00Fri Jul 28 12:00:53 2023
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A phoenix club
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at what point do the fans decide it's time for a new Kingston football club?
if not now, then when?
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11 people 
1 person
Re: A phoenix club
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Now he who. hesitates is looooooost.
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Re: A phoenix club
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Any truth in the rumore that.AFC Cavaliers have the athletics field to play on, on step8 is /.
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Re: A phoenix club
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I would still like to know why Scott left W/H .
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Re: A phoenix club
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It’s in the W and H board statement 10th April on their website
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2 people
Re: A phoenix club
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As Kirby is asking the same question on 17th June as 17th May . Please refer to my answer in this thread
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Re: A phoenix club
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Predictive text . Not Kirby but Korky
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Re: A phoenix club
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What's up Peter don't you want the club back in the borough ?
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1 person 2 people
Re: A phoenix club
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Korky, you asked a question on 17th May about Scott leaving W and H and on same day told all the details are on the W and H website. Then, today you ask more or less the same question. Did you not look on the W and H website???
I don’t think pointing this out gives any indication I don’t mind the team playing outside the Borough.
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3 people
Re: A phoenix club
Views: 2173
The story of one phoenix club, local to us.
And not the one beginning with “W”, but the other one beginning with “W”
https://youtu.be/ypC0IIMVSlc?feature=shared
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Neither witty or imaginative to have one
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Re: A phoenix club
Views: 9744
The best recent example I can think of where this worked was with Clapton CFC breaking from Clapton FC over disputes with the owner. Clapton CFC have all the fans, their old ground back and are thriving with men's and women's teams.
What they have going for them is a distinct political identity that attracted fans and funding from outside the non league supporter base, active efforts to appeal to fans outside their locale, and that the fans observed an impeccable boycott of the original Clapton FC (not going at all or watching over the fence from a nearby alley and so putting no money through the gates or bar).
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3 people
Re: A phoenix club
Views: 9890
Last year when we had more fans would have been the best time. The second best time is now.
Can't speak for everyone else's appetite for this but damn it man I am starving.
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6 people
Re: A phoenix club
Views: 9562
I absolutely hate this idea; you would give up the club’s history, traditions, name etc.
But
What choice have we got left with a board that have caused the club to be at its lowest point, don’t want to engage with the fans and feel they can do no wrong?
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4 people
Re: A phoenix club
Views: 9631
Depends if we are a breakaway club or a phoenix club.
A breakaway club (Enfield Town, AFC Wimbledon etc) abandons the history of the still existing entities regardless of what they may or may not assume thenselves... a phoenix club is a new entity built from the spirit of an old one that no longer exists (Hornchurch, Aldershot etc) & claims the history as a direct lineage.
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6 people
Re: A phoenix club
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Let's be a phoenix club,count me on .
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Re: A phoenix club
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Korky1 step up to the plate - arranged a venue if not free pay for it if you have to, chair the meeting be a doer not a talker
Ksuals
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1 person
Re: A phoenix club
Views: 1854
I've been a doer all my life it's time for others to step up,how about you ?
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1 person
Re: A phoenix club
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Step up again then as you know what to do. As for me there are very good reasons as to why not.
Ksuals
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Re: A phoenix club
Views: 2051
Just to let everyone know the football club chairman despite his treatment towards supporters of the club has now been invited to the supporters club party next Friday 24 May.
It will be up to him if he attends given he’s got a lot of work to do to win fans over. He has so far refused to respond to a number of emails on important points about the running of the club.
The board have also refused to meet with myself and Rex given we set out some pre conditions which include:
KBH board positions
Supporters trust board positions
Apologies for lying to supporters
There is currently nothing on the table but they want our money and to volunteer. With this in mind I have to say I am open to further discussions around a break away club.
This is now on the chairman to engage and change direction but the clock is ticking!
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5 people
Re: A phoenix club
Views: 9447
New club name - Real Kingstonian
Sorted. Now there's no doubt.
At least with this idea we can properly explore the athletics track proposal.
Also once this lot in charge get bored of running what is fast becoming dog and duck FC, with matches only attended by their wives, other relatives and a handful of bootlickers, when they cease to exist the history pre-phoenix can be absorbed.
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2 people 4 people
Re: A phoenix club
Views: 9125
I am no bootlicker,and I'll kick the arse. Of anyone who says so.
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Re: A phoenix club
Views: 9544
Good points Paddy.
We would be breakaway if we set up in the next few years.
Then in 5 years when there is no money left(go check the figures and make your own mind up) we could then become a phoenix club.
I think this type of conversation gives us a bit of hope finally that we would still have a club in the future!
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3 people 1 person
Re: A phoenix club
Views: 9533
My thoughts exactly... although I have the timeline a little more concentrated in my mind...
The second this becomes a reality & 25% of the existing match going fans (plus all of the people like myself who are voting with our wallets) decide they want to be a part of this new entity, Kingstonian FC becomes critically unsustainable & probably dies within a year or two... maybe quicker if there is no one left to oppose the powers that be from siphoning off what money is left through their nefarious means.
Before a ball is even kicked, we'd theoretically be a phoenix club (although I think the reality of it is you need to apply to the FA for phoenix status).
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4 people 1 person
Re: A phoenix club
Views: 9393
For me: if we continue to play outside the borough / local area then it's a realistic consideration.
If we return to the borough / local area then it's not. Even if we hate the way the club is run.
For me it's as a simple as that. Kingston needs a football club.
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7 people
Re: A phoenix club
Views: 9217
I've resigned myself to the fact that I might never go to another Ks game. I'm certainly not travelling down to London to put any money into a pot that props up the current board.
However, I would absolutely be there in red and white hoops to cheer on The Kingston Road FC (or similar) in their first game in the depths of the combined counties.
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3 people
Re: A phoenix club
Views: 9402
I was also massively against the concept until relatively recently.
I have no trust or faith in the board. They’re keeping us in the dark to an unnecessary degree. We left KM 6.5 years ago and all we’ve heard from them since is ‘be patient, we have a plan’.
There is simply no reason to believe it by this stage. We keep hearing ‘we acknowledge our communication needs to be better’ but they’ve done nothing to improve it. If anything they communicate with the fans less.
Agree with the discomfort about losing our history if we did this, but the other option might be losing our future.
I think it’s at least a conversation worth having.
Wonder what Wimbledon would do if we were to then say “actually, we’re Kingstonian now - can we have the rest of that money?”
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9 people 1 person
Re: A phoenix club
Views: 9408
fwiw my feeling is…
no-one is yet ready to set this up. but if it was done so I think it would gain momentum and finance very quickly
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6 people
Re: A phoenix club
Views: 9271
Think it’s too early
More thought is needed because of lack of ground, lack of guarantee that a league would slot us in, lack of support beyond a strong small core group
Think Ks would have to go further down the league pyramid- possibly CC Div 1 (if that’s the step below CC Prem)
Maybe a better option would be to enact a coup d’état on CorCas (just putting it out there)
Either way I think it’s a few years early, and as pointed out we’d lose the history (we don’t have the general support of AFCW)
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Neither witty or imaginative to have one
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1 person 4 people
Re: A phoenix club
Views: 2009
Be bold,step up now,get the athletics ground ,attention KBH lads ,I'll get my old boss Jim Cochrane ,if you need any advice, let's go for it AFC Kingstonian,C,'mon you K'ssssssss.
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1 person
Re: A phoenix club - fao any CorCas fans
Views: 9135
The point about taking over your club, the “coup d’état” comment, is purely me playing devil’s advocate and not my thoughts (and as can be seen from replies and “dislikes” not representing fans’ views
The borough is big enough for three senior clubs at present (eg Chessington & Hook, you and us; and if the time comes to pass another one or two more clubs. Long may this continue as will be our rivalry (hopefully at step 3 level, rather then any other level below step 3)
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Neither witty or imaginative to have one
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1 person 1 person
Re: A phoenix club
Views: 9228
"Maybe a better option would be to enact a coup d’état on CorCas (just putting it out there)"
This is completely inappropriate and a mad idea anyway.
Not only is it disrespectful to Casuals (who I know some people dislike, but come on) it would be insane to think that would feel any more like 'our' club.
I hope we are back playing in the borough next season and the most likely chance of that is a groundshare with Casuals, which wasn't perfect but we regularly got crowds of about double what we're getting at the moment.
So let's not be taking the piss.
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11 people
Re: A phoenix club
Views: 9247
Agree with MC. The club is dying in Mitcham and we need to come to an arrangement with one of Casuals, Met or Hampton. These sorts of comments are hardly going to win us any friends.
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2 people
Re: A phoenix club
Views: 9149
The worry is that we leave it for another year, more people would have just given up on this shit show entirely. You're right that more thought is needed on the idea & I'm pleased to see this little acorn is starting to germinate with discussions like this.
To be fair though I don't think there ever will be a 'right' time to pull the trigger on something like this. It's not something anyone ideally wants to have to do... I think everyone (even those who still think the board are doing a good job) agrees that the best outcome is Kingstonian FC playing in Kingston upon Thames but people are losing faith, or have entirely lost faith, in that ever being something that becomes a reality.
Personally I don't think losing our history is such a terrible thing if it secures a future, just ask Enfield Town fans... Enfield FC is just as a revered traditional name in non league football as Kingstonian is, maybe even more so than us, but they did what they had to do & now look at them! Playing in their own town (at an athletics ground, no less) with a decent support as a sustainable Step 3 side knocking on the door of Step 2. This should be our inspiration to get what we want if we are pushed into having to do it. Hell, if it matters to most we could even be like Wimbledon & just pretend that the history is ours.
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1 person
Re: A phoenix club
Views: 9116
The founding of Enfield Town below has some similar circumstances. Our board don't seem like they are actively trying to pocket the cash held in an escrow account for themselves though. Rather they are Just running it down through poor decisions
The club was founded on 23 June 2001 by the Enfield Supporters' Trust after Trust members considered that the regime in charge of Enfield no longer had the interests of the club at heart and lacked sufficient will to bring about the return of the club to its home town, having left Southbury Road in 1999. This followed the chairman of Enfield withdrawing from an outline agreement with the Supporters' Trust which would have seen the Trust take over the running of a debt-free club and receiving £100,000 from money from the sale of Southbury Road which was held in an escrow account by Enfield Council. The balance of over £600,000 would have been paid to the chairman
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2 people 1 person
Re: A phoenix club
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I’d have CC div 1 over what we have at the moment, no question
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7 people
Re: A phoenix club
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Can’t disagree there
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Neither witty or imaginative to have one
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Re: A phoenix club
Views: 9250
This is an idea that could work, I'm pretty sure that the club could jump from step 6 to step 5 pretty quickly with money for set up, gate receipts and potential sponsorship, etc. The budget would be more than good enough.
The issue is that a ground development plan would be needed. I imagine the Athletics track would be sought as the venue, what with it being the ideal location. If it is possible then money would need to be found for changing facilities and a club house.
If the Athletics track doesn't work, there are few options for groundshare. The available grounds in the borough (Casuals and Chessington & Hook) do not seem keen on a groundshare, and neighbouring ones like Hampton or Colliers Wood would be expensive or already have an existing groundshare arrangement like CW.
It's certainly an option, just a lot of things to think about to make it work.
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1 person 1 person
Re: A phoenix club
Views: 9295
regardless of if its K’s fans or not… if there’s a gap, something will one day filll it
I think of this often /www.surreycomet.co.uk/sport/15509412.new-football-club-in-kingston-cavaliers-afc-to-play-at-kingsmeadow-athletics-stadium/
Edited by jon tolley at 01:42:10 on 8th December 2023
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1 person 1 person
Re: A phoenix club
Views: 9199
So, what happened to Kingston Cavaliers?
Do they still exist?, Do they run an extensive youth set up?
Do they use the athletics pitch without hinderance from other sporting actiivities?
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Re: A phoenix club
Views: 9201
as far as I know nothing. never had played a game…
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Re: A phoenix club
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* BangsyBump *
In light of recent events, anyone else get the urge to revisit this conversation?
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4 people
Re: A phoenix club
Views: 2096
Thought about it this morning weirdly.
Maybe it's what the board wants ?
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It's the Organs or the Craic, you can only serve one master
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Re: A phoenix club
Views: 2174
I can’t help but think about it.
I’m blocked by Twitter and those of us who won’t toe the line have already been openly threatened with bans by the new board. I’ve tried to invest my own time and money and have been mugged off due to greed (from some) and ego (of others).
And whilst RPV is closer to Kingston, we are still no closer to actually playing in Kingston, or being the borough’s community football club.
At this point: what are we even fighting for? Would it just be quicker and easier to start again? We’d be playing at the same level within 5 years tops, and we would be doing it properly, and with a sense of fun and purpose again.
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9 people
Re: A phoenix club
Views: 2044
If KFC still exist would it not be a breakaway/ new club as there are no ashes to arise from at the moment?
Ksuals
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Re: A phoenix club
Views: 1971
I guess just like AFCW
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It's the Organs or the Craic, you can only serve one master
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Re: A phoenix club
Views: 2021
Maybe, I remember a now prominent member of the supporters club saying WFC supporters should not form a new club but support existing local clubs. I wonder if that view is still held
Ksuals
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1 person
Re: A phoenix club
Views: 2009
I remember Wombles fans telling us when our board decided to move us to Leatherhead that we should accept that & go with them without fuss. Just shows that with time views can change either way I suppose.
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1 person
Re: A phoenix club
Views: 1833
The Wombles,F_____g cheek.
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Re: A phoenix club
Views: 1935
Or maybe there's more than one view?
Ksuals
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Re: A phoenix club
Views: 2014
There's plenty of views, but we are discussing one in particular in a thread about one in particular. Not sure where I inferred there wasn't but my apologies if that was your take away.
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Re: A phoenix club
Views: 1981
Don't know why you think you have to apologise, don't threads sometimes meander about? And no I'm not infering anything on your behalf
Ksuals
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Re: A phoenix club
Views: 1997
Breakaway ala Enfield Town & Wombles. Phoenix is kind of the generic term most people use as well as a specific one for a club thats created from the demise of another, sort of like how hoover is a brand not a type of appliance but any old vacuum cleaner gets dubbed a hoover.
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Re: A phoenix club
Views: 2461
As someone who was involved with local football in east London for many years, and saw the consequences of groundsharing. I think K's should cut their losses, and play at the athletics stadium if possible. This would have to be at a lower level, but at least Kingstonian would be playing in their home borough, the crowds would probably increase, and they could re-establish themselves in the area. Once this was done, negotiations for a senior standard ground could be started from a position of strength. It's time for the club to cut its losses and come home. Failing this, a phoenix club might be the only option, provided said club played in Kingston. I appreciate I'm an outsider looking in, but maybe the situation needs a dispassionate view.
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9 people 1 person
Re: A phoenix club
Views: 1476
I couldn't agree more but it's getting enough people to join in the movement ,I'm probably too old but the young ones.on the S/club should be game
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1 person
Re: A phoenix club
Views: 1541
Let's take stock...
The Supporters Club facilitated a meeting in January this year to discuss the formation of a breakaway/phoenix club - and it was generally agreed then that it was not (quite) time to move ahead with this.
Shortly after that, protests against the way the Club was being run intensified, the Chairman resigned, and a new Board of Directors took over. Since then, a very promising Manager has been appointed, and he looks like he's assembling an exciting squad of players for Season 2024-25.
Efforts have been made to improve communications. Some good, some bad. (In fact, some VERY bad.) Overall, still nowhere near good enough. The Supporters Club continues to apply pressure in this regard.
But, of course, what the supporters really want to hear is that the Club will return to playing in the Borough. We're limited in what we can share on a public forum (and supporters will rightly decide who or what to believe anyway) but we're being told that more progress has been made since the new Directors took over than was made in the six or seven years before.
Kingstonian Supporters Club
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7 people
Re: A phoenix club
Views: 9045
I think the most important factor of these phoenix/breakaway feelings is wanting a football club in Kingston, with how the current one not in Kingston was/is being run a close second.
If the new board has made more progress which turns onto something more tangible to announce soon (& don't drop the ball on anything else in the meantime) then that's the biggest factor resolved in the best way possible & the idea of a breakaway starts to go away... or evolve into dreams of a revolution instead...
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2 people
Re: A phoenix club
Views: 1500
And my personal view...
Forming a phoenix/breakaway club would be a huge move. The danger is that the supporters would split down the middle, with both the new club and the old probably doomed to failure.
Let's give the new Board until the season proper gets under way in August and review the situation then.
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7 people
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