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Groundshare next aeason
Views: 2846
Announced as Raynes Pk Vale
#StillInExile
https://www.kingstonianfc.com/news/kingstonian-to-ground-share-with-raynes-park-vale
Plus statement from the Chair of the club and a Q&A
https://www.kingstonianfc.com/news
________________________________________________
Neither witty or imaginative to have one
Edited by KsMikey at 18:17:04 on 5th February 2024
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Re: Groundshare next aeason
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https://footballpink.net/dont-let-it-bounce-raynes-park-vales-non-league-ground/
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Re: Groundshare next aeason
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This feels like some kind of capitulation, I don't like it.
It probably isn't available, but Imber Court would have been better.
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Announced as Raynes Pk Vale
So not only are we bottom of the league, it seems likely that we'll have to stop playing now and get forcibly relegated.
RPV is not sufficient for Step 3. We surely can't be allowed to continue playing when we know that we aren't able to play at that level next year. This is where "sporting integrity" comes in. Other teams will claim that we're trying to lose!
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The last time I went to RPV they had started building some significant structure to the left as you go in and repairing the fencing so I assume they are improving the ground for their potential promotion for 24/25.
It's obviously not ideal but it is a direct train or bus from Kingston. 25 mins by train from centre of Kingston to their ground or 40ish by bus?
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If they get promotion this season, they get until next March (I think) to get their ground up to standard. We would get no such leeway, so if we stay up we wouldn't be able to play there. Hence other teams being able to claim that we're playing to lose!
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Re: Groundshare next aeason
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Is that what one calls a conundrum
I am sure we haven't been playing to lose and certainly not earlier in the season but it could be seen that incompetence from the top put us in a position where it is inevitable now.
I am sure the players do not play to lose but when you let your better players go and do not replace them with players of the same standard the inevitable happens to leave us where we are.
There in the gloom may just be a chance firstly at a lower level but with a chance in a new ground a chance to reserect ourselves although you may believe it can only be with a different Board.
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Re: Groundshare next aeason
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(Tooting fan but semi-regular Ks attendee for a few seasons)
If Ks do stay up and RPV don't get promoted, could/would Ks contribute/pay for the ground improvement to allow IPL football at Vale?
Ks previously paid for/contributed to ground improvements at CCFC?
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1 person
Re: Groundshare next aeason
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I’m sure the players / manager aren’t playing to lose
I’m not sure the club didn’t withdraw a budget in order to get ks relegated cos there weren’t the step 3 grounds available
Tbh. It’s all a guess cos we hear nothing from them
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Re: Groundshare next aeason
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Got to be better than tooting
Better to get there as well local buses and train station 10 mins walk.
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Best K's related news in a long time this imo, not that there has been much to compete with it.
Not pretending like this solves all of our problems, but it's put a bandage over one of the bigger problems & hopefully
can help break us out of the vicious cycle of: losing fans>losing income>losing budget>losing product>losing fans etc.
Relegation is pretty much nailed on now anyway so I'm not sure the staying up argument is a realistic negative for this move but if the theoretical choice ends up between Step 3 football in Tooting or Step 4 football in Raynes Park... how many people would prefer to keep the status quo?
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Relegation is pretty much nailed on now
I think this announcement confirms that relegation this season was the plan all along. Managed decline.
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I don't disagree about relegation being the plan all along, the signs all over the place are there... but to me this particular bit of news looks like this is a move caused by it more than it looks like a move which was a symptom of it. At the end of the day we all assume the intentions of the (not a) board was to go down right, so with that in mind the only relevant question attached to that regarding on field matters is where would everyone prefer to be playing Step 4 football next season?
Playing at RPV (at any level) is going to be an improvement on playing at T&M (at any level) from a supporters point of view right? Don't get me wrong, I'm not suddenly going to become a board apologist & I'm actually still very much on the other extreme of a breakaway... but the move to RPV has got to be better news than it is negative surely?
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The issue isn’t accepting relegation this season. The issue is that the Board have already accepted that we won’t be trying for promotion next season. This deal is for two years, which means if we somehow turn things around and get promoted next season, we won’t be able to move back up to step 3 football due to our ground.
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Re: Groundshare next aeason
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I guess it is 4D Chess (totally by chance, not by design knowing K's) in that RPV clearly have the ambition & with a new income stream for 2 years they now have a boost to the finances with which to achieve Step 3 status themselves - which would include ground improvements to gain Grand Drive the ground grading required.
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Re: Groundshare next aeason
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This seems a very generous interpretation Paddy. What are the odds that both RPV and us get promoted to step 3 at the same time? Because if RPV don’t get promoted to step 3 at the same time we do, why would they spend the not inconsiderable sum of their money required to upgrade their ground for step 3 football when they aren’t playing at step 3?
In reality the decision to groundshare with RPV is not only just throwing the towel in on this season, but next season as well. We won’t be able to get promoted back up to step 3 next year and will just be aiming to avoid relegation to step 5. No doubt the playing budget next year will reflect that (lack of) ambition. The K’s are just in managed decline now.
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To be fair, I think it’s far more likely that RPV would get promoted than Kingstonian … they have an established squad and they have learnt all about Isthmian South Central this season.
Just look at Casuals and their turnover of players and their struggles right now … and then Tooting will tell you that the CCL is pretty damned difficult as well!
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Re: Groundshare next aeason
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Personally I'm pleased at the move, Mitcham has been a disaster that has brought the club to its knees. RPV is not perfect location-wise but it's considerably nearer, hopefully this is the first step in getting our club back.
To answer Paddy's question yes, I'd rather be there at step 4. Trying to cling on at step 3 miles from home with a low budget was miserable anyway, if we'd somehow avoided the drop there'd have been no joy in going through it all again next season in Mitcham until the inevitable.
But typical of the board that even what should be a positive announcement is spoiled by lack of communication of such an important aspect. Did they just not think we'd notice that it's a step 4 ground and therefore wonder what might happen in the future?
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Re: Groundshare next aeason
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We have to welcome this as good news.
Personally I don't think relegation has been 'the plan', but now we're in this situation, we know we're going down. So do we commit to playing in Tooting when we won't need a ground that big, or do we accept what's happening and choose somewhere better for us? The rules re ground grading do raise some questions, but hopefully a bit of common sense prevails.
The aforementioned point about us accepting we won't get promotion next year is a good one, but if we're being honest I think that was highly unlikely anyway. There are some clubs with good support and serious money behind them in the league below - oh, and their own ground too.
Bleak though it might sound, if you offered me mere survival next year I'd take it. Look at Casuals.
As SDG acknowledges, playing at a lower level closer to home in a lower league has to be preferable to Step 3 in Tooting. Everyone we have heard from, in terms of clubs in a similar situation, says that location is vital in terms of helping crowds. And crowd numbers is the key thing.
As a location RPV works much better. A couple have mentioned the distance from Kingston but more importantly, for me, you can get a direct train from every station in the borough. It connects to the Kingston, Surbiton and Tolworth branches. Buses also an option. And for me it's a 25-min cycle, through Berrylands and down the cycle path beside the railway line, whereas Mitcham was 45 mins through some awful roads.
Raynes Park also at least has a decent enough 'shows the football and does food' pub right by the station. Mitcham has nothing.
The ground is a bit run-down, but good if they're doing work on it.
It's quite depressing that, seven years after moving out of Kingston, we are celebrating this move - our fourth groundshare, somewhere outside the borough, and with barely a couple of stands. But this is our lot now.
To be perfectly honest I think we should probably be looking at the possibility of some kind of long-term partnership there. I know some would hate to hear that, but I'm just completely unconvinced the club will find anything better. If this was 'deal or no deal', I think I'd 'deal' on us playing home games here for the next decade. At least that would mean the club is still standing.
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Re: Groundshare next aeason
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The deal to share at RPV is for just two years. I would hate to see us repeating the mistake we made at KGF, where we invested money in the stadium just for Cor-Cas to kick us out afterwards.
If we give RPV a single penny for anything more than simple ground rent, it would have to come with a minimum term guarantee of say fifteen years. Which in turn means that the Womble blood money will reduce by a further £300-£350k and we can say goodbye to ever building anything at the University or the Athletics stadium.
I'm really not sure about moving to RPV. Unless the Directors have an oven-ready plan to return to the Borough at the end of two years. I'm worried Grand Drive could become our permanent new "home".
Edited by reximus at 11:10:17 on 6th February 2024
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I don't think anyone would suggest investing 'unnecessary' money into the ground for the sake of it unless there was a guarantee of being there for a long period, no.
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Re: Groundshare next aeason
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I agree with what you say. I'm uneasy about going to RPV.
I'm grateful to their officials and supporters for letting us share
with them, as I was with Levered, Casuals and T&M.
RPV have put a great deal of effort into improving their facilities and have a significant youth set up now. However IMO, they are only borderline graded for step 4, the pitch isn't great, the stand isn't really viable for seating purposes and access to the site is pot holed and poorly lit of a night time.
I don't think they'll be promoted this season. Theyv'e dipped in form and have lost one or two of their decent players. Matt Drage came back to us pretty quickly. Transport links are obviously much better and maybe some of our fan base will return more regularly next season. As has already been stated, our rent may well go towards improving facilities at RPV, but it will still be way short of step 3 standards. If it were available, I still think Imber Court would have been a better option as it is a fully functioning level 3 facility with no issues. Too late now.
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Re: Groundshare next aeason
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Good point if we aren't careful we are going to upgrade all the stadiums of step 4 clubs surrounding Kingston and eventually end up like Epsom & Ewell ground sharing somewhere vaguely local to our home area forever without the money to have a new home.
It would be good to hear some kind of achievable vision for a ground within the borough. When I think of similar clubs Horsham took 10 years to move grounds but always had a location in mind.
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Re: Groundshare next aeason
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I certainly wouldn't want to put a dampener on the move, but have many of you been to RPV recently? (It's my most local ground).
Whilst RPV undeniably have "huge ambitions" it's a pretty run down and fairly dire place at the moment. It doesn't respond well to rain (not as bad as Leatherhead of course) and fixture backlog with a bad winter could be an issue. Also, the pot holed path in to the ground and local parking are both a nightmare albeit train links are much better.
Is there any statement so far on bar and burger etc receipts on a Ks match day?
I genuinely wish you Ks the very best with this new move but have fears one sticking plaster is being replaced with another.
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Re: Groundshare next aeason
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We played there twice last season so a good number of have.
My previous visit was in 2000.
Not much had changed!
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Re: Groundshare next aeason
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I've been a few times this season. I don't think it's particularly run down, basic sure. As for "dire" I don't think so at all. Good clubhouse, local beer on tap inside and outside the ground, a bbq and a tea/coffee truck which isn't just serving up instant muck.
I do agree the parking is less than ideal and they could do a better job in the darker months and late kickoffs with fixing the holes and lighting the approach to the ground, but I've seen worse. The lack of toilets in the ground (having to go out to the clubhouse) is an issue but I assumed being rectified by the building work going on.
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Re: Groundshare next aeason
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I went to Raynes Park more than I went to Mitcham in 2023. Most of the time because it's closer to Kingston (my home)
it's significantly better than Mitcham for match day experience, and the club's attendances are significantly better than Kingstonian's.
their away sponsor is also significantly better than our's.
that said, this is the ground at which Kingstonian die. but we'll get another five years out of it.
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Re: Groundshare next aeason
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Let's talk pram access
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Good point
(No, nothing to read into this from me)
Grounds need to be accessible to all in the community
________________________________________________
Neither witty or imaginative to have one
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Re: Groundshare next aeason
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Making it to 5 years in one ground is a bold assumption :)
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Re: Groundshare next aeason
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Whilst the facilities are not great the board have a strong vision on how they will develop and grow their club.
Ground improvements on the horizon
A competitive team in the league
Good local sponsors
A sad state of affairs when RPV become bigger than Ks. But credit to them and all the more reason the Ks board need to go!
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Re: Groundshare next aeason
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Sad thing is that RPV aren't the only local club to be overtaking us. Hanworth Villa are putting a great little set-up in place, really engaging with a community that's traditionally been apathetic to football and moving ahead. That's where I have ended up over Tooting but will at least give the Grand Drive experience a go next season.
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Re: Groundshare next aeason
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The ground needs improvements, an entrance near the Main Road, more covered seating, better LED floodlights and lighting around the outside paths.
Edited by BE at 19:30:40 on 7th February 2024
Edited by BE at 21:58:32 on 7th February 2024
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Sorry, but this comes across as “Grand Drive just isn’t good enough for the mighty Kingstonian” : I’m sure that RPV are well aware of the improvements required, and who knows, may be putting their income from this groundshare towards them.
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Re: Groundshare next aeason
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It is not a Grade B ground and therefore if we work a miracle and survive relegation we will not be allowed to play in the Premier next season. So once again the board have premptied our future. DIv ! South Central for at least two seasons.
Edited by BE at 13:56:29 on 10th February 2024
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