The K's In Point
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by Cardiff KsToday 16:40Today at 16:40:05
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New players
Views: 1946
Last season we took relegation on the chin and was told we had no money for players . We are Suddenly splashing the cash, from where I ask!
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11 people
Re: New players
Views: 1254
At the moment all hypothetical ,until they start.paying.
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Re: New players
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I would say that there are several factors here . Firstly, like many organisations, Kingstonian FC has its financial years. For next season (and financial year), I believe the football club has secured some additional financial backing and has a changed board of directors.
We have managed to recruit an excellent management team whose primary motivation is love of football and community and not making money. Having done so, the club is able to attract players we could not previously have aspired to signing. Some players will go wherever pays the most but many more are most attracted to playing for good managers.
I think we have an exciting new season ahead.
Edited by John Bangs at 08:04:00 on 10th May 2024
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3 people 
2 people
Re: New players
Views: 1553
what if you're both right?
we may well have an exciting new season ahead, but may also piss away more money and could wind up in five/ten years. there's gotta be so few K's fans who aren't questioning this apparent spending spree. I get that some players are motivated differently, but unless we KNOW the pay cuts and budgets, we're gonna keep being cynical.
because the people who've lied to us and taken the club into a downward spiral... well what if they continue to lie to us and continue to take the club into a downward spiral.
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9 people
Re: New players
Views: 1411
Has any non league ever admitted to having a big playing budget? I guess Tamplin, it was so excessive it would be pointless to deny it, but hard to think of many other examples. Even under Dynan he/the club would deny we had a big budget, even though it was obvious.
However much spin we give it about the love of the manager/club/whatever, if we're signing this many players of this calibre this early our budget is definitely, er, "competitive".
I hope we've used this 'new investment' to pay our rent at RPV first, so we don't have to dip into the AFC money for it. With interest rates as they are the AFC pot should increase this season.
Edited by SDG (Ks) at 13:36:58 on 10th May 2024
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3 people
Re: New players
Views: 1369
If only we'd had a Director with the responsibility of bringing in investment in recent seasons.
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1 person
Re: New players
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The piece I really don’t understand is what is the point on putting new investment into the side this year and having a “competitive” budget? What are we trying to achieve? It can’t be promotion as the Directors have taken the disastrous decision to sign a two year deal to play at RPV which means that we are unable to go up as the ground is a long way from step 3 standard. It appears to be money down the drain. It might make the season more enjoyable to watch for supporters but it won’t move the Club forward,
And SDG if you really believe that the Wombles pot of cash will increase this season, please contact me as I have a bridge that I’m sure you will be interested in buying.
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2 people 2 people
Re: New players
Views: 1386
No , you are wrong. Raynes Park Vale have recently made several improvements to the ground which could be seen on Wednesday at the under 18s cup final. They have plans for further improvement and themselves aspire to move to step three. In any case, promoted clubs have a year in which to achieve the appropriate standard .. so there is no bar to future promotion
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1 person
Re: New players
Views: 1378
I’m sorry John but you are the one who is wrong. You don’t have a year to achieve the required ground grading, you have until 31st March in the season you are promoted.
RPV do indeed have ambitions of their own. But are you really trying to tell me John that if we win promotion and RPV don’t next season, RPV will then spend the (considerable) sum necessary to bring their ground up to the necessary standard when they don’t have to, just so we can take up our promotion? Nobody is naive enough to believe that surely. Of course we could spend some of the Wombles money on a ground we don’t own just to bring it up to the necessary standard to go up but that would, in my view, be yet another foolish decision.
I look forward to see any long term plan produced by the Board because what this Club has lacked for years is any coherent long term planning.
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7 people 1 person
Re: New players
Views: 1335
Okay there is only 11 months- not a year - I stand ever so slightly corrected!.
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2 people
Re: New players
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The reason the deadline is important John is that the ground needs to reach the required standard before the end of the first season when a Club is promoted. So if we go up and play at RPV the ground improvements necessary to get a step 3 grading will need to be made by 31st March. Why would RPV spend that money if they are playing at step 4 at that time? (If they ever get promoted I can see them trying to bring their ground up to scratch at that point).
Hence my comment - I can see no way for us to take up a place back at step 3 next season unless, either, we pay to improve a ground we don’t own, or RPV get promoted to step 3 in exactly the same season as us and invest to being their ground up to the required standard.
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Re: New players
Views: 1253
Option 3, we agree to buy the land along with Raynes Park Vale from Merton Council and Grand Drive becomes our new permanent home… we pay to improve the ground we would now part-own.
Edited by PlayupKs at 21:42:42 on 10th May 2024
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Re: New players
Views: 1174
The way things are going in any scenario close to this RPV will own us before we own them!
Anyhow, we gotta stop pissing people off by saying things about taking over their ground... as tongue in cheek as it may be, it gets noticed & makes us look like pound shop Wombles. I can remember similar conversations in the past about KGF & also Chalky Lane which didn't really endear us to the current occupants of those places.
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7 people
Re: New players
Views: 1312
Afraid I'll have to decline your bridge, I said it should increase (as we apparently have new investment that we could use to pay the rent) not that I think it will increase (as that investment clearly going on the team instead)...
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Re: New players
Views: 1356
No. Whatever did or didn’t happen in the past, none of the AFC money will be spent on the team.
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Re: New players
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You seem to know an awful lot of inside info Bangsy ,brown nosing?
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1 person 3 people
Re: New players
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I wasn't talking about the AFC money, I was talking about the new investment you said there's been in the club. That seems to be going on players not on the rent, which I assume is still coming from the AFC money?
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2 people
Re: New players
Views: 1325
My apologies - I got the wrong end of the stick and yes, you have that right.
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Re: New players
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Glad you seem to be clearly on the board reporting back. Not that you have peddled or put smoke over their blatant lies in the past
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It's the Organs or the Craic, you can only serve one master
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3 people 1 person
Re: New players
Views: 1288
John we’ve been lied to for years about what the money can be used for. For years we were told it could only be used on rent and then purchase of a ground. Instead it was used for everything and anything.
Why would you believe people that have lied to the fan base for years? What have you seen that would make us believe anything different?
I suppose the £350k in directors loans is just going to be written off is it? Dream on!
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4 people 2 people
Re: New players
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Don't believe a word of it ,it's so old directors can still soak the club if the opportunity arises,I'd like them to post evidence of f/loans.
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Re: New players
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I do entirely understand why people may be sceptical at this stage. However, I believe that we need ways of moving forward. It should also be noted that there is a largely new group of owners and for myself I’m resolved to work with them.
I think we also need to be aware that Scott may not want to broadcast to opposing teams what his budget is . I’m sure you might also agree that it would be wrong be to suggest that details of players individual pay be published.
As further information unfolds about future plans, there may perhaps be opportunities for further discussions about the way forward.
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5 people 4 people
Re: New players
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I dio entirely understand why people may be sceptical at this stage.
How about switching may to should?
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It's the Organs or the Craic, you can only serve one master
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1 person
Re: New players
Views: 1236
Not really. If anything, I would say that, in my own view, people do actually not need to be. We have already seen excellent managerial appointments and a great start in building a strong team for next season. If good news keeps on coming, I think that over time, most fans will be pleased with progress and may be willing to work with the new owners on things like increasing attendances, improving the match day experience and enhancing community engagement.
I personally think that there is an important role for those who are willing to act as “critical friends” for the football club.
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3 people
Re: New players
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Are you a "critical friend" John? Can you give us any examples where you've criticised the board?
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3 people 1 person
Re: New players
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John has criticised supporters more than he’s criticised the board!
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4 people 3 people
Re: New players
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No, I wouldn’t say so as I’m working too closely with the club’s directors to claim that.
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3 people 2 people
Re: New players
Views: 1112
Thanks John, great to know. Please can you ask them to confirm why the current chairman (director at the time) turned down a £150k (minimum) investment in the CLUB, coupled with unquantifiable relevant experience in what the CLUB needs? Was it to keep himself in power and/or to get a PERSONAL cash return for the exiting failed board? Thanks.
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10 people 2 people
Re: New players
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If KBH still exists, why not ask him yourselves?
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2 people 4 people
Re: New players
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A real life South West London version of the Muhammad Saeed Al-Sahhaf/Comical Ali meme.
Fantasy battling with reality.
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4 people
Re: New players
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Thanks John. Is this the problem? A consortium have to chase the board for the privilege of being allowed to hand over £150k (minimum) and unlimited personal expertise?
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6 people 1 person
Re: New players
Views: 1076
Not really as it was a take over bid. You make it sound like you were± simply offering a gift.
Out of interest does the consortium actually still exist?
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1 person 4 people
Re: New players
Views: 1053
It wasn’t a takeover bid
oh John. I hope you don’t get conned in whatever it is they’re using you for
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7 people 2 people
Re: New players
Views: 1050
Hi Jon
Well then the document Taimour published was not as clear as you supposed then. The offer of £30k a year in loans appeared to be conditional upon being given a 51% controlling stake in ownership of the club.
Can you explain to me then how that was not a take over bid? The earlier proposal of taking a smaller stake in the club was clearly not and from what I understand of it, sounded like a very good idea. To my mind, It is a great shame that was not taken up. I must admit that I am not clear whether KBH is still a thing? Presumably it could still be?
Much what is said about KBH actually comes from your cheerleaders who are not part of your group and read into things what they want to see. It would be interesting to hear from members of the KBH grouping about future intentions. In my view, there is nothing to be gained but a headache by endlessly rehashing arguments about the recent past. Sure, the past cannot simply be forgotten but there need to be ways of moving forward.
I understand perfectly what the new owners are doing. You may not agree with my approach but please can we dispense with all this stuff about anyone who disagrees is either a fool or dishonest. Why don’t we have a call or meet for a coffee and I will explain my thinking a bit further?
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7 people 1 person
Re: New players
Views: 1058
Apart from anything else one could hardly imagine the members of the owners of the club at that time exactly “jockeying on” with the KBH consortium so that alone explains the club’s decision not to proceed with a discussion. The owners are not obliged to do so.
In any event I thought that a Supporters Trust representing the interest of all supporters is a better structure albeit I certainly admired the members of the KBH consortium for coming forward with a constructive plan.
I also thought their plan involved taking a controlling stake in the company. Perhaps it is not a surprise that those in control did not want to cede control especially given what one might term the distant relationships between some of them.
Anyway as things have turned out, Yioryos has made a good start. Raynes Park is a far better bet for Ks. It is the only non league ground within half an hour’s travel of zone one apparently. Getting a manager like Scott Harris and players of this calibre is also truly exciting news! At last we are not going to lose virtually every game. We are going to be competitive, we are going to win football matches - thank goodness for that because the last couple of years at Mitcham were dire.
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8 people
Re: New players
Views: 1015
Thanks for this. I do agree that the new owners have made a good and encouraging start which you describe well
I did also agree with you that development of a Supporters Trust might have been an attractive Idea. However, those in control of the Supporters Club appear to have shelved the idea for now and so this does not seem a realistic option in the foreseeable future.
I really don’t think it is the case that the new owners have set their face against some form of involvement from KBH. I also understand that the club does not have and it’s not looking to have a majority shareholder - not even if that is a collective.
One thing I have noticed, is that there are several enthusiasts for a KBH take over but that none of the leading proponents of this were actually ever part of the collective. If anyone asks about the status of KBH or its future intentions, no reply is forthcoming. Watch this space I suppose .
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4 people 2 people
Re: New players
Views: 1038
[quote]However, those in control of the Supporters Club appear to have shelved the idea for now and so this does not seem a realistic option in the foreseeable future.[quote]
Just a point of order here, “those in control of the Supporters Club” are the supporters themselves and a committee has been elected to represent the supporters. Shame that didn’t work out like that the last few years when you were the SC omitted chairman and you rolled over and had your tummy tickled. Under your watch the board constantly lied to the supporters and treated them poorly and you, as chairman, accepted everything and never challenged anything. I’d be surprised if you don’t have splinters up your arse the amount you sit on the fence! Im just glad that the current committee are actually representing the supporters they are elected to represent.
Funny that a vociferous supporters club representing the fans has seen some change in management and transfer policy.
Edited by Damo at 14:14:02 on 12th May 2024
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3 people 4 people
Re: New players
Views: 966
I don’t think moving to Raynes Park or bringing in Scott Harris and eight new players has anything to do with the supporters club.
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5 people 1 person
Re: New players
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You don’t think the action from the supporters has a link to the board suddenly springing into life? Wow, denial.
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1 person 5 people
Re: New players
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I really doubt it. I can see the club is concerned about the weaponisation of the supporters club. However it is far more likely that Anderson and Fenwick ran out of road and decided to do something else. They had not been successful in finding a new ground, Chessington was a red herring, the move to Mitcham resulted in diminished crowds and a terrible relegation. I think it was fully time for them to hand over the responsibility for bringing Ks home. The fact that they do so to Yioryos and new owners instead of KBH or a supporters trust speaks loudly. I believe they tried their best and acted in the interests of the club but do I believe they handed over their shares and resigned as directors because the composition of the supporters club changed? No.
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3 people 3 people
Re: New players
Views: 886
That’s absolute nonsense and completely burying your head in the sand. In the few months since the SC started to challenge the poor running of the club we’ve seen a change in chairman, directors leaving and a new forwards strategy in appointing a good manager and signing many new players. I can’t believe how blind you are that these things are just coincidence. It’s just completely naive.
I guess you’re the sort of person who thinks union action has no impact on bosses or government decisions 😂
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4 people 4 people
Re: New players
Views: 730
All a complete coincidence I am afraid! Do you really think the directors who are willing to ban individuals and have implemented a plan to rebuild the club “from the ground upwards” were in the least influenced by a supporters club taken over by an anti-board faction and members of whom number amongst those now banned from the club’s account on twatter?
Things like Anderson and Fenwick stepping down, their replacements, moving ground and bringing in a top manager like Scott Harris don’t happen overnight. Harris resigned at W&H in November so the timing has been planned carefully.
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2 people 2 people
Re: New players
Views: 690
Keep pretending there’s no correlation and this is all a natural sequence of events and nothing to do with the fans.
I bet you believe that Henry Ford gave his workers an 8 hour day because he was a generous boss too and had nothing to do with pressure from his work force 😂😂😂
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1 person 1 person
Re: New players
Views: 678
Maybe to think it's all down to fan pressure you'd think the miners won their battle to keep pits open
Ksuals
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2 people
Re: New players
Views: 668
The miners lost, the mines were closed in a show of strength from Thatcher to crush the unions. This has actually been proved to be a poor choice from Thatcher and the miners were right all along. But, I’m glad you made the link between Thatcher and the current board.
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2 people
Re: New players
Views: 663
Fraid you you give me too much credit, as you like a facile comparison I'd thought I'd join in
Ksuals
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1 person
Re: New players
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Ah, so it’s only a poor comparison when you don’t agree with it? You think direct action doesn’t work, I’ve rubbished that claim, which makes you thinking certain changes of direction is coincidence. You then likened the board treating its fans to the way Thatcher treated the miners, and now you’re dunmbing down on it. Gotcha
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1 person
Re: New players
Views: 665
Oh Damo,,'dumbing down gotcha'you don't know when someone is making fun of you?
It's do with you facile comparisons.
Ksuals
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3 people
Re: New players
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As ex member of the CWU , sometimes ultimately not
Ksuals
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Re: New players
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Like the butterfly that flapped its wings, direct causation is hard to attribute, but the overall direction of travel seems pretty clear.
Some of the old SC became apologists for the Board, supporting their every word rather than supporting the supporters. A new Committee has adopted a more challenging attitude, and change has followed.
QED? Probably not quite. But if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...
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2 people
Re: New players
Views: 852
New ground share,new manager new signings,complaints bout communicating and long teams - what's that french plus la change or something.
Ksuals
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Re: New players
Views: 859
Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose. The more things change, the more they stay the same.
Or as Roger Daltrey said: "Here comes the new boss, same as the old boss". Which seems painfully relevant just at the moment.
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2 people
Re: New players
Views: 829
Would be good if the new board publishes some off the pitch goals for this season for things like attendances, match sponsors and AFCW money.
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6 people
Re: New players
Views: 854
Agree with this.
What's the attendance aim? Regulars can then get behind it and try and bring people with them. Make it a community goal
Let the supporters target be the LTD target
However before this the current LTD needs to apologise for the blatant lies that's been peddled whilst the chairman was apart of the board that championed those lies
The only way forward is an apology to the fans which has not been forthcoming
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It's the Organs or the Craic, you can only serve one master
Edited by JBreeze at 16:32:21 on 13th May 2024
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5 people
Re: New players
Views: 968
You may find this strange coming from me, but I think you may have something of a point in suggesting that changes in the supporters club accelerated change at “board level”. If that is the case, it seems to me to follow that we should be working with the new board of directors; particularly as there is no obvious alternative.
Perhaps in one sense you’ve been doing that yourself in lobbing around the need to maintain a pathway for our team players into the first team.?
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4 people 1 person
Re: New players
Views: 823
The supporters want to support. Recent times have shown that the best way to support was to challenge the poor running of the club. There’s many bridges to build for the current board to rebuild trust. The new manager and new players is a positive, but we need many more positives to get many supporters back on side.
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4 people
Re: New players
Views: 1000
I have decided not to pursue the formation of a Supporters Trust just at the moment, unless there is a strong desire from the supporters to do so. I set out my thoughts at: https://comeonuks.wordpress.com/2024/02/19/misplaced-trust/
You said "new owners have [not] set their face against some form of involvement from KBH" - I'm afraid I've been told the exact opposite. "Dead in the water" was the expression used.
You also said Ks aren't looking to have a majority shareholder. In the Chairman's statement of 15th April (in which he threatened to ban supporters for negativity) he explicitly referred to himself as the majority shareholder.
Edited by reximus at 12:39:40 on 12th May 2024
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6 people
Re: New players
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#JohnBangsHatesChange
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5 people 2 people
Re: New players
Views: 1159
OK great. Now we're getting somewhere.
So what you're saying is that, if the board did something worthy of criticism, you wouldn't criticise them.
So you're not telling the whole truth.
So there's no point listening to your opinions, because they're not the whole truth.
Got it.
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10 people 3 people
Re: New players
Views: 1162
How are you “working closely with the club’s board”? Is this a new thing? Is this a personal thing or in your role as SC committee member?
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1 person 1 person
Re: New players
Views: 1152
I am the Club’s Community Liaison Officer and so yes that is on an individual basis. As I understand it, communications from the supporters club to the football club are made by its officers unless otherwise agreed by the SC committee..
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1 person
Re: New players
Views: 1122
John, as a member of the Supporters Club Committee, you will know as well as anyone in this thread, that messages from the SC to the Chairman have gone unanswered for a long time now.
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3 people
Re: New players
Views: 1118
good luck John with that obvious conflict of interests
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6 people 1 person
Re: New players
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As further information unfolds about future plans, there may perhaps be opportunities for further discussions about the way forward.
Perhaps they should have started with future plans and the way forward, and announce players/management team later on. I think we could all of enjoyed the announcements a bit more fully then.
This seasons barely over, it’s not like there’s a rush. And if there is a future plan on ways forward then it shouldn’t be difficult/take very long to communicate.
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1 person
Re: New players
Views: 1309
There totally was a rush . This was in order to secure Scott and Martyn’s services ahead several other clubs that had hoped to sign them up. Getting them on board was a major coup.
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5 people
Re: New players
Views: 1091
Do we know why Scott and Martyn left W/H ?
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Re: New players
Views: 1278
That’s why there was an, understandable, rush to complete the deal. Not why it had to be announced.
Regardless, I’d still hope an overall future plan and way of moving forward was in place before committing to a new management team and playing squad, no mater how good they are.
If so, no reason this couldn’t be communicated to the fans last week; with the announcements this week.
If not, well that’s all our worry… we’ve jumped in to this blindly for prioritising short-term success over the long-term future of the club.
Edited by PlayupKs at 16:47:40 on 10th May 2024
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2 people
Re: New players
Views: 1299
Sorry but you are kidding me? … you are surely not suggesting that we should have signed a new manager and assistant manager and eight players and kept it a secret?
For the Club to have a chance at future success, we needed to break the cycle of endless defeats. These signings should more than accomplish that. I believe that the club is working on a number a of fronts to improve Kingstonian’s prospects: both in the short term and the long term.
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4 people
Re: New players
Views: 1278
By that logic are you saying the club should have communicated all 8+ signings in one go, rather than keep the other completed deals ‘a secret’.
I’m asking they communicate what the long-term vision and plan is, so we can enjoy the short-term, as I clearly stated. Glad you believe that there one in place, and I’m sure you’ve been told to some degree what is, as for the rest of us why should we believe there are plans when it hasn’t been communicated.
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2 people
Re: New players
Views: 1293
A “Major coup”. Quite so.
The supporters club demanded the board be sacked. The board effectively sacked itself.
Yioryos is the remaining director and he was one of several before. I always assumed Anderson and Fenwick really decided policy and what to do.
Notwithstanding the discovery that KBH would have done a far better job, he has got off to a good start himself with a new deal at a more suitable ground, the hiring of an excellent management team with recent successes and the reconstruction of our (hitherto abysmal) team with eight very good signings.
So well done to him. This has the potential to be transformational. Well virtually anything is better than losing 30 games a season.
As for the finances then why should the directors disclose this to people who are not owners and not directors? I am not aware of many football clubs who do that. As for KBH it is as plain as a pikestaff the owners do not want to deal with them, just as it is plain that they do not want to deal with the supporters club.
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6 people 1 person
Re: New players
Views: 1274
“As for the finances then why should the directors disclose this to people who are not owners and not directors? I am not aware of many football clubs who do that.
I think it’s this. The then directors told us that they were merely custodians of the club. and spent about half a million pounds of the club’s money on very little this jeopardising the very existence of the club. One of the directors then, who went along with the lie, is still running things.
So yes, legally fine. Morally very very dubious.
the info most fans would love to know is already being fed to pals. but I don’t think that’s the substantive. I’d love to know what the progress / plan is. but we’re just left hanging on.
I recently had a property developer with experience of building football grounds ask me if there was anyone serious running Kingstonian. I had to say no
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9 people 2 people
Re: New players
Views: 1292
You describe well a series of positive developments. However, my understanding is that the new owners are much more open to working with the supporters club and the KBH collective than you suggest. There would be a need for work to re-establish trust on both sides but if this could be accomplished, I believe this would be very beneficial for the long-term future of the football club.
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4 people
Re: New players
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Hi John, while you're here, what trust is the current (or old) board seeking from members of KBH? I think the offer was fairly clear, and certainly trustworthy.
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Re: New players
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Trust? Only on one side I think.
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Re: New players
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There would be a need for work to re-establish trust on both sides
I'm not sure how that would be possible following the Chairman's recent statement where he made it clear that he will no longer discuss anything that happened in the past!
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Re: New players
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there is a largely new group of owners and I’m resolved to work with them
I'm happy to work with the new owners - but not lie back and let them f*ck me the same way the last lot did.
The owners need to be accountable, transparent and democratic. The only long-term sustainable future for Ks is to embrace supporter ownership. In the short term, that means admitting that lies have been told in the past, a guarantee that lies will not be told in the future, accepting KBH as shareholders and accepting supporter representatives on to the Board of Directors.
None of that will happen overnight. But that needs to be the direction of travel.
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Re: New players
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None of that will ever happen. The owners have no intention of dealing with a supporters club they think has been weaponised against them! It is entirely possible for the club to remain privately owned which is what I think will happen.
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I’m curious as to why supporter ownership is the only way K’s can be sustainable? There are plenty of examples of clubs thriving which are not supporter owned.
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Yes Nick , I can see no basis to suggest that supporter ownership is the only model that can achieve sustainability. However, that is not to say it is not a good idea. In my view, the first step for this to happen and to be taken seriously by the current owners, is forthe supporters to set up a viable Supporters Trust.
Edited by John Bangs at 15:57:42 on 10th May 2024
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And go the same way as the last ,Peter out with the remaining 16000 being handed over to Anderson and Winwright by a current directors .
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so the reason we should believe everything about club finances is okay is the person who’s lied to us about finances says it is?
I find that a hard approach.
tell me why I’m wrong Optimistic K
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Re: New players
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It’s a shame that the football club wasn’t interested in additional financial backing and a new board of directors over the last two seasons.
Then maybe we wouldn’t have got relegated and had the worst season in the club’s history while pissing away another £80,000 of money earmarked for a new ground.
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This lot will piss it all away,more lies and deceit.
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