The K's In Point
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by jon tolleyYesterday 20:12Yesterday at 20:12:01
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by Filipo25/3/2024 17:12Mon Mar 25 17:12:08 2024 5 people
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Fans Forum
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The Football Club and the Supporters Club are organising an open meeting on Weds 8th October.
The meeting will be an opportunity to share news from the Club, and on our progress to convert the Supporters Club to a Trust. And there'll be plenty of time to ask questions.
This meeting will be held online (only). Zoom details will be circulated nearer the time.
Feel free to reply to this thread with any comments or questions.
Kingstonian Supporters Club
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Re: Fans Forum
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Appreciating much of the discussion, quite rightly, is being dominated by ground discussion, I'm still very curious to hear from Filipo and his recent experiences.
It was rather sad that this avenue of potentially very interesting discussion, raised by a great question, had to be cut short during the Skype meeting.
Appreciating people are very busy, I think it would be both beneficial and very interesting to hear the story/situation from the "inside" and what could possibly be expected moving forwards.
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Re: Fans Forum
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We're pleased to confirm that a Fans Forum will be held online this Wednesday. The meeting will be conducted over 2 x 40 minute Zoom sessions.
Meeting 1 @ 7:30pm
Click here
Meeting 2 @ 8:20pm
Click here
You can comment or ask questions in advance via the S Club website at https://comeonuks.wordpress.com/2025/09/27/fans-forum/
Kingstonian Supporters Club
Edited by K Supporters Club at 10:38:39 on 7th October 2025
Edited by K Supporters Club at 10:42:38 on 7th October 2025
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Re: Fans Forum tonight
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Tonight's meeting will start at 7:30pm for 40 minutes, after which we'll have a 10 minute break and then reconvene at 8:20pm for a further 40 minutes. Please note the following:
* Try to be on time. We'll follow a very light agenda with plenty of time for discussion and questions.
* Don't expect fancy presentations - we're just coming together to talk.
* Microphones will be muted on arival. Please raise your hand if you want to speak.
* It would help if you display your name on the call - rather than e.g. Android7.
* You are welcome to ask comments via the chat function.
* Please show respect to everyone else on the call.
* The meeting may be recorded.
____________________________________________
Tonight's meeting is being held online only.
Some meetings are held in person only; some are held in person where we try to provide a livestream (although this doesn't really work too well for anyone!); and this one is online only - deliberately to ensure that as many people as possible are able to attend and contribute. We hope it works. If it doesn't work, we'll learn from that.
Kingstonian Supporters Club
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Re: Fans Forum tonight
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Thank you everyone for giving up your time.
I wasn't taking notes so I won't be publishing any, but other people are more than welcome to post a summary if they'd like to.
Apologies again for the Zoom limitations. Maybe someone with a pro account could host the next one?
Kingstonian Supporters Club
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5 people
Re: Fans Forum tonight
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i coudln't make it what with work,
would be great to read a summary of key points?
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Re: Fans Forum tonight
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Communication continues to be an issue. The phrase ‘could have been an email’ springs to mind, but replace email with club statement. Although admittedly it was useful to query some bits and pieces.
Now what we seemingly have is unless you were able to attend the meeting you have no way of knowing what’s happening at the club without it being passed on via fans to each other which is where Chinese whispers and consequent a lot of frustration come from.
I’ll therefore do my best to summarise but as I’m not a club official I may get things wrong/misunderstood parts and take no responsibility for any of the below being taken as gospel without official club statement/news stories to clarify.
Manager situation:
- nothing much enlightening on the sacking. Not based on results but more day to day workings. All management team great guys, enthusiasm unmatched but decision made in best interest of the club and won’t elloborate due to not wanting to air dirty laundry…. Would argue there still a way of wording a 2-3 sentence reason for behind the decision without dirty laundry - again showing communication skills are non-existent (ie experience of day to day runnings of a club of this size was below expectations - again without a reason given thats what I’m taking from reading between the lines and how whispers start).
- new management team hoping to be appointed by Littlehampton game of the 18 October. But board taking there time as they know they need to get this appointment right.
-in the meantime Kim is taking charge of managing team and Tom Williams training.
Ground situation:
- Expectation is we’ll be in our ground within 18months - 3years.
- currently at pre-application phase, but the ground is where everyone knows it is (again does everyone know? The board seem to let so many people know that is got out and again a bit Chinese whispery).
Hired an architect?/planning manager? to help foresee any issues with the planning status. Can’t reveal any more at planning stage. But landlord desperate to have us there, discussions with council positive… this is the furthest down the ground situation we’ve ever been. (Deja vu springs to mind).
- Timing wise I can’t remember exactly sorry - but I think it was hoped taking a pessimistic view that we would be out of preplanning approvals in Feb and planning acceptance in the off season/summer 26.
- main concerns are transport/being on outskirts of borough. Board said if they need to arrange transport from places they will do and that will be part of planning application. Think acceptance from them it being on the outskirts borough isn’t ideal but we’re at a point where we need to sort it and for want of better wording - this is the best available solution whilst not an ideal one.
- seemed acceptance there would be local objections and local people aren’t going to be happy. The strategy for this initially seemed they’ll have a week to object and therefore we don’t want to give them warning outside of this so they don’t time to form a proper argument. When supporters suggested this may not be the best approach to keeping on side, the board quickly seemed to change view and said obviously we’ll be canvassing the area and treating it like a local election to get people on side.
Landlord doesn’t want people to know about it at the moment anyway and apparently we can’t publicly disclose it until it gets preplanning approval, so we’ll see how big a local objection is down the line. Their instance on the landlord not wanting it getting out - I did wonder if he knows the whole fanbase supposedly knows and we’re discussing its location in some depth a formal call and how he would feel about that.
Again like the managers situation. I don’t understand why a statement detailing where we are, with the necessary confidential info kept confidential can’t be put out. Especially since the last official word from the chairman was he hoped to have an update shortly after July.
- currently in negotiations with RPV for a further 2 year ground share, with option of a 3rd year
Board and Supporters Club/Trust relationship:
- there was a question on the relationship between the board and supporters club moving away from that of a critical friend and what’s changed in recent months.
This got cut off due to Zoom call ending, but knowing what an excellent job the supporters club have done in the last year I would like to think there will be a follow-up answer to this via a mail out.
Shaun seemed to be gearing up to acknowledge there was a shift in the relationship, stemming from a better relationship and understanding of the way board works meaning maybe they don’t have such a critical view as they did before….
If I’ve missed crucial or anyone thinks I’ve misinterpreted anything please feel more than free to correct me.
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Re: Fans Forum tonight
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thanks for the update, and best efforts, Chinese whispers caveat aside, solid stuff.
But where the fuck is the ground? (not directed at the poster, anyone feel free to answer.
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Re: Fans Forum tonight
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On the call last night, Shaun pleaded for more people to help. Thank you for answering his call with a fantastic summary of the discussions, it's much appreciated.
Yes, communication continues to be an issue. So I hope we'll be having these open forum meetings more regularly in the future.
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Re: Fans Forum tonight
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really helpful, thanks
I think the ground in that location is disastrous, but if everyone else thinks it’s a winner (if it’s even affordable) then I am but one voice.
good to hear we’re intending to stay at Raynes Park in the meantime. the best of the options available to us
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Re: Fans Forum tonight
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Sorry that’s thing I missed out - the affordability was questioned but the board were quite firm that whether it’s fully self-funded or with the inclusion of grants (but they seemed more reluctant to go down this route as it would limit/be governed how often the pitch could be used and rented out), it is definitely affordable. Think they also said it would be a 25 year lease, but it would be our decision to extend it each time - so not danger of being booted out at any point apparently.
I think most fans have a lot of doubt. It’s definitely not an ideal location by any stretch. There’s a lot I would do to have the ground in the centre of Kingston, I definitely fall into the camp of we were a town club not borough. But to a certain extent I have to trust the board have done the full due diligence and that there is definitely no possibility that such a ground/venue exists and if that is the case enough time has been wasted, if this truly is the best/only ground solution we can’t waste another year or two hoping something else might pop up from thin air.
The truth is we’ve already lost the majority of the past fan base anyway and without a ground in the centre it’s definitely not coming back, so we need to build up new fans from where the ground will be anyway no matter where it is. This is probably the worrying bit for me that I’m not convinced the board gets that because just getting the planning in as quickly as possible to ensure locals don’t have time to object it doesn’t seem the best initial strategy to do this. They also mentioned about crowds only being in 200s (at best) at the moment and by the time we grow and the crowds bigger they won’t be able to object…. Thus seemingly relying on crowds coming back/to the club when we’re ideally higher up the leagues and more successful. I don’t think that would be the case - I don’t think crowds would be any better now if we’d got promoted in the playoffs last year, but I get the feeling promotions and success still seems to be the boards number 1 strategy to getting crowds back.
Whilst we shouldn’t keep look back in the past, without doubt the boards biggest mistakes have been:
1. Not immediately using the Womble money to hire someone/a group with speciality in locating suitable space for a ground. We may very well be in the exact same location but any doubt on there being another space would be nipped in the bud and we would of got there a hell of a lot quicker and with more ground budget left.
2. I’m still at complete disbelief that no iteration of the board have not literally been down on their hands and knees pleading for your involvement in the club Jon. Nothing has bought the Kingston community together like Banquet Records in the decades gone by and put Kingston on the map to those outside as well (literally the other week I overheard 2x Camden residents say they’re considering moving to Kingston solely because they seem to be spending more time here due to Banquet).
Imagine having a fan in your fan base whose business has a unimaginable track record of engaging the community your club is actively trying to keep and recruit further from, and not doing everything possible to ensure their involvement.
Alas the opportunity for both the above has gone but I sometimes can’t help but think where we might be if the board had just done both of the two actions above alone.
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Re: Fans Forum tonight
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whether it’s fully self-funded or with the inclusion of grants (but they seemed more reluctant to go down this route as it would limit/be governed how often the pitch could be used and rented out)
I think this is a really important issue. If financing the ground with grants, serves to limit the amount/ hours/ charges that we can levy to 3rd parties, might that actually help to placate any objections from the local residents?
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Re: Fans Forum tonight
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to be blunt (and yes posting time will indicate the time of the night), but fuck 3rd parties. If its our ground its our ground, for Kingstonian FC to play football on, if you want to go to goals for a kick about then jump up to New Malden.
Yes thats blunt, but conveys the point I want to make.
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Re: Fans Forum tonight
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No. And none of it matters anyway; K's are dead with this wider strategy.
It's a pipe dream, and a *really shit* pipe dream at that.
The only hope a proper Kingstonian has is a ground in Kingston. There are two there already.
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Re: Fans Forum tonight
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You talk about “pipe dreams” while waffling about grounds in Kingston town. Where? Is someone going to come up with the money to buy back Kingsmeadow from Clearlake Capital, owners of Chelsea, with their estimated worth being $85billion.
I have nostalgia for Kingsmeadow as much as anyone, would love it back, but I live in the real world and it isn’t happening. That is the “pipe dream” that makes a handful of Ks fans disrupt actual progress happening, because they’re too attached to a past that can’t come back. Sorry to disturb your “ pipe dream”, it’s time to wake up and smell the coffee.
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Re: Fans Forum tonight
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But in this same *real world* a new ground is also not happening. It's not an intentional delaying tactic from Yioryos, but a naive belief that has the same outcome. The only future for Kingstonian is going all in on Kingston. This board have ignored the most obvious option of the athletics stadium continuously for years, pissing away money that could have given us a future.
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Re: Fans Forum tonight
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Nonsense. The athletics track, we have been told, was looked into and council wouldn’t entertain it. Also, how do you get football at the athletics stadium? It’s already used for athletics, 3 out of 4 sides would be unusable for fans, no clubhouse or bar and the car park dominated by Chelsea if games clash.
It’s a terrible idea, unworkable and brings me back to my comment about not living in the real world and blinded by nostalgia.
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Re: Fans Forum tonight
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I like you a lot Damo, but respectfully disagree
I compare it to needing a royal flush in a game of poker
Kingsmeadow Athletics has say three of the cards needed. location, broad infrastructure, loosely affordable, (also a local population, existing permissions and CIL likeliness), but we do not have the full flush
In the other mooted site we still have five cards but they’re all face down.
So I know which I think is the stronger hand.
I don’t think it’s gonna happen, but for me - and i accept I’m in the minority - i don’t even think the discussed location is even desirable.
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Re: Fans Forum tonight
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Four cards to a flush is formally known as a Partridge, if anyone knows John Partridge you will know why.
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Re: Fans Forum tonight
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I can meet you all down there and we can measure the pitch it is not suitable for senior football even at our level again I will mention taking a corner situation.
Sat football can be play ed on it but a lot lower level than us
I agree tbf with damo.
Plus I am sure there would be many classes with chelsea and athletics meetings
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Re: Fans Forum tonight
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Foley as it stands if you're correct the pitch is too small for the non league Ks in reality could aspire to. Do you know if any insurmountable obstacles,including costs, back up your view that the athletic stadium is a non starter. More than one regular poster maintains it is feasible.
Ksuals
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Re: Fans Forum tonight
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The pitch cannot be made wider anymore
Plus surley for the club we have to get 3g so we can hire out every night of the week that's income
Why play on grass and people are saying the opposite
Hence we have to build from scratch or am I missing something or 10k a week I am plugging out the air BTW
Non league clubs the way forward is this
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Re: Fans Forum tonight
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The pitch cannot be made wider anymore
Plus surley for the club we have to get 3g so we can hire out every night of the week that's income
Why play on grass and people are saying the opposite
Hence we have to build from scratch or am I missing something or 10k a week I am plugging out the air BTW
Non league clubs the way forward is this
The main argument against is financial. a proper 3G pitch would use up all of the money left from Wimbledon, before we look at building “the stadium”
there’s already a very decent 3G in place just down the road at Epsom & Ewell High, and RBK council 3G priorities (I was part of the group that introduced the council’s 3G strategy) are likely to be around Southborogh afaik
Edited by jon tolley at 19:37:58 on 12th October 2025
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Re: Fans Forum tonight
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yep, it’s not yet ready to go. but I’m very confident the remedies to these problems would be easier, and more affordable, than building a whole new stadium.
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Re: Fans Forum tonight
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Jon, I am interested to know what you think these remedies are and why you think they are affordable? How much do you think the remedies would cost? If the problem is the same as what was had a Reading athletics stadium (where you couldn't have a big enough pitch with enough run off, without major work on the grass and track edges) why do you think the council or Athletics club would be in favour of doing this? I don't see how the club's presence there is going to be of significant enough demonstrable benefit to change people's minds.
Also, how would you protect the pitch and maintain it from field event damage? This would cost thousands on its own and I know Windsor and Eton spend over £2000 per month on their pitch which doesn't even have this problem.
I work with a club that has it's own ground and we have recently had some grants for the pitch and applied for ones for the surrounding areas (changing rooms, bar etc). We can provide playing opportunities for 1st, reserve, u18 and women's teams on that pitch, as well as working with the local authority to provide extensive youth football on our training pitch next door and on the neighbouring park. What do K's have to offer?
When we look at other things like building an extra stand, club house, bar, covered area of terracing and redeveloping external areas, not only will this cost an absolute fortune, it would massively impinge on the ongoing running of athletics and leisure services at the facility. It's not like we even have a long track record of working with the other parties that we can fall back on.
In your analogy, you say that this has a hand with three good cards, I think it's struggling to even be one. At all the grounds I have played away at, funding tends to be via The Football Foundation or Sport England. I just don't see how you could present a case that would be enough for either of these organisations to grant the club any money.
The only way you could even make it a starter were if you were to start a new club and use it as a home in Step 7 or 8, and hopefully build a relationship and a case that way, but that would still be pretty remote. People talk like it's a site that's good to go, when it most definitely isn't.
The only thing good about it is the location, but even then does that really matter. Absolutely loads of teams have grounds on the edge of their towns/boroughs, but the best make that work by offering, a good product, with a community centred vibe with clever marketing.
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Re: Fans Forum tonight
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To be fair, I think the "start a new club and use it as a home in Step 7 or 8" option is what some of us would prefer at this stage. Not everyone, obviously, but more & more people are coming to the realisation that this could be the only way to have a football club that represents Kingston upon Thames.
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Re: Fans Forum tonight
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This is what has never made sense about the arguments against the track. That people thought it was somehow easier/cheaper/more realistic to build something entirely new from scratch - in a field that Ando compared to a WW1 battle site in the case of Lovelace - compared with making the necessary improvements to something that already exists. And the one counter-argument was around which grants were available but apparently we now don't even seem to now think that we need grants for the new ground?
I hope the new site comes off but my main takeaway from the meeting last week was that I think the board still underestimate the difficulty of it both financially and politically. It's a better idea than Lovelace and Hawker were - true zero percent chances that should never have been entertained - but I still think it's unlikely. I hope I'm wrong.
Edited by SDG (Ks) at 12:17:59 on 12th October 2025
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And the issue is that we are being asked to place a huge amount of trust in the board...in the same month that two different managers are sounding off about how untrustworthy the board are.
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Where is this new ground proposal?
Ksuals
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Re: Fans Forum tonight
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The athletic club run many teams from 11 year olds and up. If all of them use Kingsmeadow for league fixtures plus training sessions that's a lot going on.
As at the moment most home WSL fixtures are on Sunday they don't clash.
Ksuals
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Re: Fans Forum tonight
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Sounds like a fun day out. Maybe the players can join us in helping to measure, would making cracking content for the Ks YouTube channel.
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But again like Kingsmeadow, isn’t the overiding issue with Kingsmeadow the Athletics Track categorically do not want us there. Unless anyone knows different.
So using your poker anaology I would argue it’s more like rocking up through the front door, putting down a royal flush but then being asked by the host who the fuck you are and asked to leave.
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Re: Fans Forum tonight
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But again like Kingsmeadow, isn’t the overiding issue with Kingsmeadow the Athletics Track categorically do not want us there. Unless anyone knows different..
I was in council for seven years and know during that time no-one made serious approach about using it. since then, I have had recent emails and conversations saying that football is plausible there on Saturdays
the tactic, as with concerts at Pryzm, isn’t to plead for permission. it’s to present an offer which makes us look like the best tenant of the lot out there
but it’s all a bit incidental. it’s still the same decision makers in charge, even if others are able to leak those decisions early nowadays
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The track is owned by the Council, the athletics club are tenants who use it at certain times, but we never made any serious attempt to convince the Council about the merits of it.
The smart play would have been to make a proper case about the track years ago. But it was obvious the board never wanted it, choosing instead to pursue pipe dreams like Lovelace and Hawker, while listening to all the foolish myths like 'you can't fit a football pitch inside an athletics track'.
For £1m, Chelmsford renovated their track into a Conference South standard (at least) ground with terracing behind both goals and their own clubhouse, while still leaving it able to host athletics to the same standard as KM. We could have done the same if only we'd made the case for it, though whether we still could having pissed half our nest egg away on mid-table finishes in the Ryman Premier is probably more debatable.
Edited by SDG (Ks) at 18:45:10 on 10th October 2025
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When I lived in Kingston often went over to Harringay where London Skolars rugby league club used the athletic track ,and I'd imagine more of their games were played during the as the athletic season seemed to work fine.
SDG who seems to know his stuff makes a good case for it to have work for Ks. Is there enough funds left now for it go ahead if all parties agreed anyway?
Ksuals
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Re: Fans Forum tonight
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That's £1m fifteen years ago what would be the cost now, £2m?
I agree the athletics stadium was probably the best option in 2017 but has the ship sailed on this option too?
On a side note Chessington Golf club has some development plans that don't include a football ground.
https://www.chessingtondra.org.uk/development-of-former-golf-course-at-chessington-south/
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Feel free to enlighten the wider strategy plan that this, unspoken (everyone knows) plan is.
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No. And none of it matters anyway; K's are dead with this wider strategy.
It's a pipe dream, and a *really shit* pipe dream at that.
The only hope a proper Kingstonian has is a ground in Kingston. There are two there already.
Does this mean AFC Kingstonian / Kington town is the way only way forward
Or to soon for that, got to ask the question (seems like it’s the only way to for Kingston to have a premier football team.)
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As long as we never ever go anywhere near the acronym 'AFC', I'm as game as I have been this last year, if not more.
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There are enough former Ks names kicking around pre the 1919 remerger to enable embracing history and avoid ‘AFC’’
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Would you want to go for a historic Kingstonian-esque name? I hadn't thought of that... 'Old Kingstonians' would be ironic lol.
I think Kingston Town have the absolute best name around which says what it needs to say. Kingston, yup that's us... Town, because its the team of the town mot the borough. But obviously that's taken unless they want to be the saviours of Kingston football.
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As the nearest ground that they might play at is in Norbiton maybe Kingston Borough F C would be appropriate for a phoenix/ breakaway non league club?
Ksuals
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Fortunately for the pedants out there (like myself) Norbiton isn't a town - it is an area within the municipal borders of Kingston upon Thames.
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Ollie my point exactly.
Ksuals
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It's a way forward for the people of Kingston, not Kingstonian.
I - along with a ridiculously vast majority of K's fans - started supporting K's because they were our local club. I could walk there. This proposed ground is further from Kingston than *at least* two other senior football setups, probably more. Yioryos and his new band of puppets are planning to give away Kingston forever.
I went to a school reunion a few weeks back. The main supported teams of my peers who still live in the locale there is now AFC Wimbledon, and a couple for Chelsea Ladies. This is all driven by their kids and wanting to find football. None of them found Kingstonian like we did, because already we don't exist to a new audience.
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I've no idea where Ks will end up (if anywhere,) but maybe be it will be within walking distance of some?
While those in the locale showing even the slightest interest in Ks has always been barely a flicker for the vast majority of time I've gone to see them,would it be a push to say it's at an all time low now?
Ksuals
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Will there be an opportunity to ask questions during the meeting, or do they need to be submitted in advance?
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Sorry had tech problems last night but would appreciate a summary of the minutes.
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